80-10-10 vs Hippocrates Nutrition Program, or something simple?
October 30, 2010 - 2:19pm
which is one better?
I would imagine it depends on the person. Every body is unique and not everyone has the same capacities to digest carbohydrates.
Douglas Graham's diet 80-10-10 recommends mostly fruit for carbs. Some people just can't do that due to candida, spikes and lows in blood sugar, neurochemical spikes and lows, etc. Even lifestyle, like for example if a person does much or too little exercise compared to another.
Our bodies are also different from our ancestors the homo-erectus, and we now have certain adaptations, and even diseases.
Hippocrates Nutrition Program is lower sugar but still an 80-10-10 diet, just lower in sugar. Hopefully not high fat though. Well it might depend on whether the program followed is Brian Clements or others associated with it like Gabriel Cousens, Ann Wigmore, or David Wolfe.
High fat contributes to candida just as much as sugar. Some in Douglas Graham's side think it's more fat than anything else.
I did once spot a good book on the raw diet, and reviewers said out of all the books it was one that did not suggest anyone get expensive equipiment or materials and was simple, and it was a good raw diet program. I don't remember which one it is and I've been looking everywhere for it on amazon.com but it's tiring to look through all the reviews.. I haven't found it yet.
October 30, 2010 - 3:03pm#1
The book "Becoming Raw" goes through the different types of raw diets and is very good with nutritional info. I would check that one out.
October 30, 2010 - 3:19pm#2
One person told me that perhaps because our bodies are filled with toxins and in an unhealthy state.. it's going to take a process of cleansing first before we could have a diet of mostly fruit.
That means, lots of greens, sprouts, remineralization, re-enzymation, candida cleansing, etc.
October 31, 2010 - 2:55am#3
I dont know where this high fat contributes to candida come from or how doug graham thinks this.
Candida, SIBO and other opportunistic infections happen because of a change in terrain. Such as anti-biotics wiping out your good flora which generate acids which keep candida in its harmless yeast form. Its when the PH of the intestinal tract changes to an alkaline PH is when opportunistic infections such as candida change to overgrowth fungal form.
You can limit all the fat in the world, but if you arent repopulating your good bacteria aswell as feeding them with fibres you will be suffering candida a long time.
Most people with true candidiasis, bacterial overgrowth and less rare parasites usually develop carbohydrate intolerance also, so in most cases high fruit diets wont work for most. The problem is that most of the candida/parasite sites attribute every ailment under the sun to candida or parasites when in many cases they dont even cause half the symptoms or conditions these sites say such as eczema for e.g which is an adrenal gland dysfunction and mild liver stagnation/toxicity problem. I really dont like these sites they make people go round in circles fighting a normal part of there body and getting no better. I was in that horrible loop for about 5 years until i realised my symptoms were actually from adrenal gland dysfunction.
October 31, 2010 - 6:24am#4
An excess of fat contributes to candida overgrowth because of the effect it has on blood sugar levels. Essentially, sugar remains in the blood for much longer and the candida feeds on it and multiplies (rather than quickly dying off as it should).
Here's an article I wrote about candida and fruit on my blog:
Is Your Raw Fruit Causing Candida Overgrowth?
October 31, 2010 - 7:05am#5
That is correct but blood sugar levels dont have anything to do with causing candida, nor does fat or carb intake. If that was the case nearly every diabetic or pre-diabetic would have candidiasis.
The only reason the candida growth gene gets turned on is when the acidic PH of the intestinal tract is altered to an alkaline PH. Which is why alkalizing your digestive tract with these silly waters, or ant-acids/proton pump inhibitors is dangerous, the intestinal tract needs to be an acidic PH to digest food/protein in particular, some minerals and vitamins are acid dependant for absorption. Candida is always in the body, skin, vagina but the flora is what secretes acids to keep candida in its harmless yeast form. Its often why certain soaps and other products can strip the good flora from the vagina/skin and cause yeast infections and other skin problems.
Also i see you wrote in your article that candidas job is to keep blood sugar levels in check, candida has no role in blood sugar regulation, the main culprits are the adrenal glands and various other hormones.
I see you also wrote that candida is a bacteria, infact candida is actually a yeast.
November 2, 2010 - 4:41am#6
i dont understand.. I always thought candida occured when the body became too acidic.
November 2, 2010 - 5:38am#7
its a common misconception ghost, mainly due to them alkaline/acid type websites that attribute every condition under the sun to over-acidic PH. Which is actually not that common as they like you to believe, the body has strict buffering systems that dont allow blood PH to change radically.
There are certain parts of the body which need to stay acidic one being the intestinal tract, without sufficient stomach acid you wont digest food/protein in particular which is dependant on acid enzymes such as protease. Like i say many vitamins and minerals are dependant on acid for absorption.
The main cause of radically altering the intestines PH is anti-biotic use killing off the good flora which secrete certain acids which keep candida and other opportunistic microbes in check. Yeast overgrowth is a fermentative condition and fermentation can only happen in an alkaline environment whereas a natural acid pH is a protective factor against yeast overgrowth and other microbes.
This is why many of these silly alkaline waters with bicarbonites and other alkalizers are a bad idea, much is taking ant-acids and proton pump inhibitors which lower your stomachs PH.
November 2, 2010 - 5:51am#8
Why would the common recommendation be to lower sugar intake if candida plays no role in blood sugar?
Candida plays a huge role in blood sugar regulation because it consumes said sugar. Too much sugar in the bloodstream and candida proliferates, leading to candida overgrowth. And actually, many diabetics do struggle with candidiasis because of hyperglycemia as well as an impaired immune system.
Actually, candida is dimorphic (it can change its shape and chemical make-up) and can exist in either a yeast or fungal form.
November 2, 2010 - 7:03am#9
Yes yeast or fungal form as i stated but its not a bacteria as you stated in your article.
Again candida has no role in blood sugar regulation, various hormones are the main regulators of blood sugar along with the adrenal glands. The reason why they say to lower sugar is two reasons one is when you have candida overgrowth or more commonly bacterial overgrowth you can become carbohydrate intolerant, not only that in the fungal overgrowth form there main source of food is from sugar.
November 4, 2010 - 5:55am#10
"Yes yeast or fungal form as i stated but its not a bacteria as you stated in your article."
Thanks for that, I'll change it. :)
Candida plays no primary role in blood sugar regulation, as our blood sugar levels should not remain elevated as long as they do from our high fat diets. In a normal healthy body, it's the adrenal glands and pancreas that regulate blood sugar.
If those become overworked, as they often do in an overstimulated and fatty body, the candida works as a backup system. The excess sugar still in the blood stream feeds the candida, allowing it to bloom and return blood glucose levels to normal. Since prolonged elevated blood sugar levels is a serious threat to the body, candida's role in blood sugar regulation is pretty important.
Like any lifestyle illness, curing candida overgrowth comes down to one thing: improving one's lifestyle. First and foremost, this means lowering fat intake to a healthy level, but it also means giving up alcohol, drugs, smoking, as well as exercising regularly, getting enough sleep, etc.
November 4, 2010 - 6:52am#11
Partially correct:) minus again that candida or bacteria has no role in blood sugar regulation. Although the adrenal glands are one of the main factors in regulation we cant forget the other hormones that also regulate blood sugar such as glucagon, growth hormone, thyroid hormones, cortisol etc.
If we dont get the terrain into gear candida, bacterial overgrowth and other opportunistic organisms such as parasites will always flourish, the good bacteria and sufficient stomach acid would usually be our first defence against these pathogens. So if you do have low levels of good flora repopulating them is the first step, fermented foods is usually the best method, aswell as feeding them with fibres from fruits/vegetables, rice bran, seaweeds, FOS and other prebiotic fibres. Raising stomach acid can be done via bitters, zinc, b vitamins, apple cider vinegar and so on.
Which is why its abit catch 22, you can be eating a great nutritious diet with lots of fruit, vegetables, whole foods but if you have low stomach acid and arent absorbing many of these vitamins/minerals which some depend on acid for absorption then its abit of going round in circles. Its the good bacteria which like i say generate acids which keep the candida growth gene turned off so that candida stays in its harmless yeast form.
November 7, 2010 - 4:22pm#12
Come on durian, there are multiple fit professional athletes who sit an eat donner kebabs and other junk for the staples of there diet. Amir khan etc was said to be scoffing on mars bars and kebabs, the guys fit as a whistle and looks healthy also. He will suffer it in years to come though obviously so its obviously not the right way but doesnt mean you cant be fit on a horrible diet.
On the note of wakame, what iodine source do you use, i dont think doug covers it if i remember, and the soil has been shown to be so depleted that most fruits and vegetables dont even contain any iodine.
Anyway where did Brian Clement come into this, we were talking about candida.
November 7, 2010 - 10:30pm#13
He's referring to the original post.
November 8, 2010 - 3:49am#14
Alright.. I do believe a fruit diet is a good one...
but the fact is, not everyone can do the frugivore lifestyle right off the bat. Fruitarian vs frugivore... frugivore is different in that a frugivore does supplement his diet of mainly fruit with other foods.
The majority of people have sugar related problems and candida. If they started on the frugivore diet things would go wrong. So as a transitional diet one would need to eat lots of greens, rebuild and strengthen their internal organs, rebuild their enzyme banks, remineralize, and detoxify.
Then one has to their lifestyle. For a person who exercises a lot it's probably best to take more fruits.
There are things to take into account though: fruit cultivars make their fruit sweeter nowadays, making them contain more sugar. Tree-ripened fruit is better than non-tree ripened fruit.
And.. frugivore means you eat a diet mainly of fruit but that doesn't mean you can't eat anything else. In fact one should eat other things besides fruit to get all the nutrition one needs. Sprouts included.
The nutritional information on sprouts is limited. When people talk of the dangers of eating beans, and grains, etc. they are usually referring to them in their unsprouted forms. Of course they are harder to digest. Sprouting might be a relatively newer thing, and in this new form nutritional information should now take this into account.
November 8, 2010 - 4:11am#15
Good post Ghost, theres always the issue that what may work for you might not necessarily work for me. Theres no one diet/lifestyle that fits all, would be a damn site easier if there was though. Pretty much the same with healing also what might cure one could well not cure another, the human body is so very complex.
I buy my sprouts pre bagged etc, id love to give a shot sprouting them myself. Can you sprout any time of the year?
November 8, 2010 - 11:31am#16
yea I do.
Another thing one might want to look at is the Metabolic Typing diets.
Now I haven't done it for myself, some might find it unscientific? I haven't read about it myself but Gabriel Cousens speaks of it. If one finds that they probably need more protein than carbs because of their consitution or whatever reason.. a fruit diet might not be all that good.
Plus, it's possible that sugars (even in fruits) can cause spikes in blood sugar if high glycemic index and load. At least, it can cause a spike in dopamine, which cause a low afterwards.
November 8, 2010 - 11:44am#17
Ive not read doug grahams book but id like to know what he thinks about a high fruit/low fat diet for those with diabetes specifically type 1. Ive seen quite a few recommend it to those with diabetes type 1 only for the poster never come back with there experiences.
Yeah i havent researched the metabolic typing diets myself much but the general consensus seems to be that its aload of bunk from what ive read. I personally didnt feel good on a very high fruit diet, i say very ghhi because i eat a great amount of fruit but i also eat moderate fat and moderate amounts of protein also. Im high raw so i still eat some cooked vegan dishes. This is what has worked best for me so far.
November 8, 2010 - 2:21pm#18
In response to the comments earlier in this post, fats have virtually no effect on blood sugar levels. The reason diabetics are put on low fat diets is simply to lower their caloric intake since fats have 9 calories versus proteins and carbohydrates which have 4 calories per gram. Candida also has no effect on blood sugar levels, however the reverse is true: blood sugar levels radically affect the growth of candida as excess sugar in the bloodstream is their manna.
On another note, there are no diabetics that I know of who have done well on Doug Graham's diet. It is simply too much carbohydrate (the definition of diabetes is the body's inability to metabolize carbohydrates). I would go so far as to say it is a dangerous diet for a diabetic to embark upon unless that person is an athlete and can burn the carbs off quickly. Doug Graham IS an athlete, so I can see his bias.
November 9, 2010 - 12:43am#19
From what I've read, I agree with powerlifter as the metabolic diet sounds hokey to me as well.
If I remember correctly fat not only slows down how quickly the body absorbs sugar into the bloodstream, but it also has a factor in how quickly it leaves the bloodstream(and thus effects insulin release).
I don't know any diabetics personally who have tried the 80/10/10 diet, but I've heard over on 30BaD that some have had success in pretty much curing their diabetes. Though one of the mandates of the diet is plenty of exercise, and if they're not doing that their not following his advice or his diet. If a person won't/can't exercise he might recommend something different, I'm not sure.
November 9, 2010 - 2:48am#20
Diabetes type 2 is part to do with a chromium deficiency so if there taking in more chromium it could be the reason there having some success.
Type 1 is abit more serious though and i have to agree with sueko i cant see it being a healthy idea, infact it may be potentially very dangerous.
If anyone thinks the metabolic diet is bad did you read about the scientist who lived on the twinkie diet recently lol. It was said to lower his bad cholesterol.
November 9, 2010 - 3:28am#21
That's what I mean. If fat makes sugars take longer to digest, and insulin is only released half an hour after consuming sugars, there will still be sugar left in the blood so that it can feed candida and not be absorbed by the cells of the body.
The idea is that fat slows down digestion such that it feeds candida rather than the body since the sugar stays in the blood long before it can be digested by the body to nourish the cells.
That's the whole premis of Douglas Grahams high carb, low fat diet. Now as for those carbs to come mainly from fruit, it just depends on the type of person I believe, the state he is in. But definitely high fat does cause problems, even for those who would eat complex carbs I would say.
One actually might have to consume a bit more fat if you're restricting carbs but still not enough to make it 'high' fat.
November 9, 2010 - 4:18am#22
His theory is still very far fetched to me, as ive said over the course of the thread and if you can find a good doctor he will say the same about the altering of PH in the intestine to an alkaline PH is what allows organisms such as candida to turn on there growth gene and transform to there fungal overgrowth form.
Id love to talk to Doug about this and see what he thinks, as carbohydrate intolerance and such usually occurs also which is why many cant even tolerate the slightest carbs when they suffer from bacterial overgrowth or candidiasis. The only way to get the terrain back in gear is to get stomach acid back into gear and repopulate the flora.
November 9, 2010 - 7:00am#23
November 9, 2010 - 7:49am#24
Cheers Swazye i forgot he had a forum, i will get in touch with him when i get a spare minute and see what he thinks. I havent read his book though so it will be hard for me to critique what he says.
Does he say that lowering fat is the cure for candida? Or only that it helps?
The guy you linked to is a type 2 diabetic by the sounds of it swazye.
November 9, 2010 - 10:38am#25
I just don't understand why the most common knowledge is that candida is caused by acidic pH and not alkaline, and in fact people suggest having a more alkalinizing diet to keep candida at bay.
November 9, 2010 - 10:56am#26
Its crazy i know but its solely down to those sort of alkalizing websites that dont use any sort of science for basis other than acidity is the cause of every disease. Which is a joke to start with. The recent one i read was stating all cancers are caused by the body being too acidic. For a start a large number of cancers are actually viral based and have nothing to do whatsoever with acidity.
The candida and parasite websites are just as bad stating every ailment and disease under the sun is caused by candida overgrowth and such. The body has very strict buffering systems to keep the bodies PH regulated. If we were all suffering from acidosis we'd know about it.
Theres nothing wrong with eating a diet rich in alkaline minerals etc infact its good for your health. But using these fad type alkalizing waters which are based around bicarbonates and other alkaline elements. Manipulating your PH especially intestinal in this way is one sure fire way to screw up your digestion which is dependent on an acidic PH aswell as creating an enviroment to turn on the candida growth gene.
These type of websites make me angry, they were solely the cause of me going round in circles for 5+ years ill because of there incorrect information. The sad bit is one person reads it then ends up creating another website and we end up having loads of sites with just the same information copyed and pasted.
November 10, 2010 - 5:50am#27
"View charts and graphs which display every single blood sugar reading and every single insulin shot Robby injects as a Type 1 Diabetic."
It's towards the bottom on his home page.
November 10, 2010 - 5:58am#28
Ahh nice swazye i couldnt find any information on him other than the site being for type 2 diabetics.
You couldnt help me with the question a post above about whether Doug says low fat cures candida or just helps? As if he says cure theres no real way this is possible with how candidiasis occurs.
November 11, 2010 - 6:35am#29
November 11, 2010 - 7:40am#30
Lol where to start, to start that was terrible, he does understand some of the reasons and what glands regulate blood sugar. So far but i can tell he has no idea of how opportunistic organisms such as candidiasis actually occurs. There is no such thing as candida being a back up system for blood sugar regulation in any medical literature to date, and for good reason like i stated before candida has no role in blood sugar regulation.
Millions around the world have high blood sugar due to poor diet, but not even a third of these people suffer from candidiasis, these people are going to develop conditions such as pre-diabetes then if they dont change diabetes etc. But high blood sugar has little to do with feeding candida and if his theory was the case munching down all those carbohydrates/sugar from fruit would be just as bad at feeding the candida, as unstable blood sugar due to adrenal gland dysfunction.
"If your not producing sugar lol" sigh. He also doesnt realise that endurance athletes main source of energy is from fatty acids/fats. Short exercise does rely on carbohydrates and glycogen.
Again if hes so worried about high blood sugar being the cause of feeding microbes then why is he prescribing masses of carbs to cure it. No mention of the good flora/bacteria which is what keeps candida/SIBO incheck or stomach acid. No mention of how candida occurs in 2 forms one its natural yeast form and the other as fungal overgrowth.
Not a fan very poor i thought, not medically sound either, we have good bacteria for a reason and even the medical community is growing wise to there importance that irritable bowel syndrome, c.difficile, bacterial overgrowth(SIBO) etc are occuring due to low levels of good flora.