Would someone like to share the basic premise of 80/10/10? I spoke briefly to a friend of mine who said she was doing extremely well on this diet, better than simply being raw. I’ve heard Doug Graham is egotistical which has been a turn off for me, but I suppose that doesn’t mean the diet is bad. If any of you would like to share information and/or experiences, I’d love to hear about it. Thanks.
Graham’s premise is that if you eat clean, only fresh fruits and veggies, you will naturally hit 80/10/10 – that’s 80% of your calories from carbs, 10% from fat, and 10% from protein. I’ve only skimmed the book and it seemed almost fruitarian in nature. Not a lot of extravagant recipes that try to duplicate cooked food but just eating fruit by the bucketload. Lots of bananas as they are dense and high calorie. Very difficult to hit the recommended 2k calories a day. Eating constantly. There are conversations here on Gone Raw regarding 80/10/10 or 8/1/1rv (raw vegan) as it’s sometimes called.
I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Doug a couple of times and I wouldn’t use the word ‘egotistical’ to describe him. He’s down-to-earth, real, approachable and a great sense of humour. I’ve seen that he gets quite a bit of negative press of this board and on some others. My gut feeling is that he gets more than his fair share of bad rep, but I haven’t done a comparative study. I think people try and discredit him because of his views on supplementation, refined foods, fat and “alternative” therapies which many other raw leaders earn a living from.
I have gained a new perspective on healthful living and a more coherent and congruent picture of how I might attain it. I don’t feel like I need to consult a book or a guru to find out if something is healthful or not. I realise that the stimulants and irritants I used to make bland food taste appealing were actually robbing my body of energy. I’ve liberated myself from the continual search for THE supplement that will take my problems away and deliver me to new heights. I’m free of my irrational fear of fruit that started years ago when I began my vegan journey following Dr Young’s program. I spend less time in the kitchen and I have more energy now than I ever had when I was high-fat raw or plain vegan. I run 12km a day, every day and I keep getting faster and faster. I’ve met all of my health goals head on. These are just some of the benefits I’ve had since I first read 80/10/10 6 months ago.
Sure, 2000 calories of raw fruit and greens is probably more food than you’re used to if you
eat raw gourmet. I routinely eat 2500 – 3000 calories a day from fruit and greens. I do this in 2 or 3 meals. I’m spending a lot less on food now that I’m no longer purchasing supplements & superfoods. And honestly, I’m not eating constantly – not even close.
You can listen to Dr Graham’s Raw Summit interview for free.
If you’re getting the results you desire doing whatever you’re doing, then keep doing it. Raw gourmet just didn’t cut it for me.
Good morning RawVoice, Willmize & Simon,
In the past weeks, I have heard various positive fedbacks about Graham’s 80/10/10. Since I have never read anything about him, but only heard of him, out of curiosity which is my nature, I decided to order his book on 80/10/10 then I’ll find out if his suggestions resonate for me or not. My motto is: various teachers resonate with various individual needs, even as far as rawfood. Once I will have read his book & experienced/played with his suggestions, I’ll gladly share with you my understanding & feedback.
Until then wishing you the very best : )
Thanks for the feedback everyone. It’s peaked my interest even further. I guess the premise is pretty simple, and I don’t believe that raw gormet is always good for you, especially too much oil. I’m not sure why he thinks that spices aren’t a good thing, though. I love my spices.
I wish to add that your comment raised my curiosity even more about the 80/10/10. : )
• I do not feel the need for supplements.
• The closest, I stay to nature the better it is. My preparations are rather simple and simply delicious ; )
• Stimulants & irritants never worked for me.
• As someone who love to be physically active, fruits are an integrated part of my diet, • Lastly, I cannot eat a lot of fat either.
I follow Robert o Youngs Ph Miracle Diet which eliminates Fruit.
I heard Dr. Graham speak on the raw summit, I liked what he had to say and I ordered and read his book. I tried his diet recommendations for a month and had difficulty eating enough calories. I’m not physically active (I’m in a wheelchair) and I don’t fit the athletic profile that he councils. I don’t burn the calories. Counting calories became unimportant to me. It was more important that I eat a more balanced diet that is more varied than his suggested menu plans. Man does not live on the nutrients in just bananas and watermelon and he recommends more fruit than vegetables and greens. I agree about the supplements, but I use seveal “Superfoods” for several reasons. Maca and yacon root have qualities that support functions of the body, maca for hormone replacement and yacon for prebiotics. Cacao is a neurostimulant and I do eat it (only occasionally). Spirulina has constituents that fight cancer and also B complex vitamins. I eat coconut oil occasionally for thyroid health and the anti-microbial/ anti-fungal properties. I don’t use spices often, but some, like cayenne pepper, have health benefits. I use that often for vascular support. Food is my medicine. My thoughts of the 80/10/10 diet are that it may be good for a physically active person, even though it’s limited, but it was not good for me.
Thank you so much for sharing 123, I honor your body wisdom which always the greatest teacher.
• “Counting calories”: it sure is the same for me.
• “eating more fruits than vegetables and greens”: over the years, I found out that the reverse is better for me. So are low glycemic fruits.
• “Superfoods”: I also use some superfood from time to time: Yacon, spirulina, coconut & occasionally cacao.
• “Food is my medicine”: it sure is the same for me.: )
Delphine, what are some of the low glycemic fruits you have had luck with? I am very sensitive to sugars so don’t do very well on a high fruit diet, but still really enjoy fruit as a snack. Just curious which have worked well for you.
Hi Jessica : )
To my delight, the berries family (low glycemic index) & the pears family (moderate glycemic index). Yet none of this is written in stone for me as we keep on changing for the best as we eat living food year after year.
My best advices would be for you to try various fruits & see how you feel within 15 min after:
• stable (which you are aiming for)
• or bloated (candida)
• or light headed ( sign of hypoglycemia) &/or irritable (sign of hypoglycemia).
Also, to check out Gabriel Cousens’ books. He has many good & wise points about this which I agree with from my personal experiences (trial & error) over the years.
Lastly, this subject is my forte & passion, check out my website & contact me directly if you need further guidances : )
May this be helpful. You have my support : )
Wishing you the best of the best
ps: low glycemic fruits are best for me, at this point in my life, because I am what is called a fast oxidizer, which means I metabolize sugar (fruits in my case) way too fast. As a result, 15 min after eating a high sugar food such as a banana or a date or even agave syrup, I feel light headed.
Some people have recommended adding a bit of fat with high glycemic food which I have tried yet it made no positive difference for me.
Some other people have recommended adding a bit of green leafy vegies with high glycemic food which I have tried yet it made no positive difference for me.
On the other hand, I have found that making a smoothie with low glycemic fruits, some fat (avocado or nuts) & green leafy vegies works wonder for me : )
Delphine, Yacon is supposed to lower the blood sugar metabolism. Does it not help you?
Hi 123 (Allison),
Yes. I also use some Yacon in small amount from time to time. I use it when I make deserts or treats for us as my husband is the same way: metabolic turbo burners team ha ha ha… It tastes good but I must say I much prefer a nice fresh fruit : )
One thing I’ve wondered about is if we’re supposed to eat such a low fat diet, why is it that coconut trees are so abundant, as well as avocado in other areas, and durian? Whereas I do agree that we should be more moderate in our fat intake I surely don’t agree with getting most of our calories from bananas. Most of the ones available in stores are hybridized and many are gassed with ethylene to help them ripen if they had been in a freezer during transport, as bananas will not naturally ripen after being in a fridge.
While superfoods may not be essential to our survival I believe that they do exist for a reason and that we can benefit from them. Some people use the argument that since superfoods are not widely available geographically that we were not meant to consume them. Firstly, most wild foods are considered superfoods because they are far more nutritious than even the best organic foods we could buy. Secondly, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that every geographical area has its own array of superfoods, even though we only hear of the few which have been studied.
My conclusion is that the main idea to take from the 80/10/10 diet is to be much more aware of what you’re eating, even on the raw diet – especially not to go crazy with the nuts. Also, for anyone who does follow this diet, make sure you aren’t brushing with glycerin toothpaste (prevents the enamel from remineralizing), and be extra vigilant about taking care of your teeth. Frederic Patenaude has an ebook which addresses this.
Read this thread which has a good debate on this issue.
All4Raw, I followed Dr Young’s ph diet for 2 years. Coming from a standard western diet, I made huge strides in my health as a result, but the I hit a plateau after 3 or 4 months and no matter how dutifully I followed the diet I saw no more improvements. Still, it worked better for me than 100% raw, high fat.
Dr Young reccommends 20% of calories from fat – which is about half the fat intake of the average westerner or about one-third of the average raw-fooder. Without eating fruit – that means you’re getting the balance of calories from vegetables and cooked grains and starches. But grains and starches should be less than 20% (volume-wise) of food intake. If you do the numbers that leaves at least 1500 calories from vegetables for the average male or 1200 calories for the average female. That’s difficult to do day-in, day-out—vegetables are even fewer calories-per-bite than fruit.
That’s probably why the pH diet didn’t work for me – I made up the missing calories with avocados, olive oil, and cooked starches.
As for fruit being acidic – Dr Young differs from just about every other source here – just google “acid alkaline food charts”. Dr Young bases his assertion on the fact that the sugars from fruit ferment to alcohol which is acidic. And sure – this is what happens if you eat fruit in bad combinations such as with, or after, fat.
Anyway, the wonderful thing is that despite all our differing approaches and opinions we actually all have a lot more in common and we’re all on our own personal journies. I’m not here to judge anyone else’s approach and I’m always open to try something else if someone shows me a better way.
1) we actually all have a lot more in common and we’re all on our own personal journeys.
2) I’m not here to judge anyone else’s approach and I’m always open to try something else if someone shows me a better way.”
I fully agree : )
Those are some interesting questions. I’ll try and leave you some interesting answers…
Just because a thing exists, doesn’t mean I think I should eat it :-)
Sure, avocados, coconuts and durian have a place in our diet. I can’t find the source for this, but I think I remember reading that young coconuts are more like 20% fat. And following the example of most other animals in the wild – I’d probably eat one thing when I’m hungry until I’m full, for as long as that thing is available. I think I’d rather be in a field of banana or mango trees than a field of avocados. But that’s my personal opinion.
I’m not sure that hybridized is bad. It doesn’t mean the same thing as genetically modified.
I’ve read that bananas transported at too low a temperature will never be able to ripen – artificial ripening with ethylene doesn’t help. Most organic bananas I buy are still green and are less likeyly to have been gassed. I think that ethylene-gassed bananas sounds worse than it actually is. Bananas produce ethylene themselves as part of the ripening process. Sure I’d rather have tree-ripened, fresh bananas than bananas that have been in transit and artificially ripened, but I don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest that the artificial ethylene has serious negative effects. It’s not the same thing as formaldehyde-dipped coconuts.
As for superfoods – I was referring mainly to the pharmaceutical-grade refined or fractured products, and the practice of consuming them therapeutically. If a Mangosteen is a superfood, I’ll eat one if it tastes nice, but I’d prefer fresh over powdered. I’ve been down the path of self-diagnosing and trying to remedy the situation with one supplement or another. I’ve spent thousands of dollars on different superfoods and supplements and I may as well have taken placebo. I had no idea what I was doing and I don’t think any of them made a difference. My journey so far has brought me to the realisation that my body is infintely wiser than I am, and as long as I provide healthful conditions for life, my body will make its own repairs. I don’t think my problems are due to a lack of one powder or another.
My key, take-home lessons from 80/10/10 are:
1. The best foods for us are Whole, Fresh, Ripe, Raw, Organic, Plants.
2. “More” is not always “Best”
3. If I couldn’t/wouldn’t want to make an entire meal out of a food, then it probably isn’t a good food for me.
4. There is more to health than nutrition. There is more to nutrition than food.
5. The 80:10:10 ratio is an average over days or weeks – some days may be 20% fat, other days may be 5%.
I like the fact that I don’t need any special utensils to prepare my food (I like my VitaMix, but I could live without it). I like that I can now go travelling without having to pack a suitcase with pills, powders, sprouting jars, mesh bags, nuts and dehydrated snacks. My life is a lot less complicated.
For anyone interested, Your Natural Diet: Alive Raw Foods, by Dr. T.C. Fry & David Klein is an enjoyable essay into what our diet would probably be like without centuries of cultural traditions.
For those that are doing the 80/10/10 program, I am just starting it and am wondering what sort of daily ‘meal plans’ you do? I’m still sorting out a good balance for what to eat and I actually detest bananas so that has made it somewhat difficult.:)
today i had half a honeydew for breakfast. i’m about to get some bananas or apples for lunch. for dinner i’ll probably make a salad with under 5 ingredients along with a dressing that doubles as a soup with some of the same 5 ingredients. that’s how i do it. i’ll sprinkle a teaspoon or so of hempseeds or another fat source onto the salad. some days i eat just pears for lunch. some days i make a smoothie with bananas, dates, and carob for breakfast. it just depends on how i feel and how much time i have.
Simon, I do the program raw and with lots of fat from avocado and almonds.I don’t eat grain at all. I don’t know, It works for me. I just can’t do fruit I have tryed.Most of my diet is Fat. Why is Raw fat is harmful? I would love someone to explain this to me if you would. Thanks Simon for sharing your experiences
Here’s what Dr. Graham has to say about fat:
Excess fat is the culprit in candida, not sugar, per se. When fat levels in the blood rise, so does blood sugar, because excess fat inhibits insulin from performing its function of escorting sugar out of the bloodstream. The excess fat lines the blood vessel walls, the cells, insulin receptor sites, the sugar molecules themselves, and the insulin with a thin coating of fat, thus blocking and inhibiting normal metabolic activity.
If you want unbiased and real answers to any 80/10/10 diet questions you will surely not get them here. There have been many threads on this posted, all you need to do is search for them under 80/10/10 (aka 811). To get info on it you need to read Doug’s forum, it is used by people who eat and live the 80/10/10 lifestyle. There is one guy who rides his bicycle on average of close to 300 miles a day. Not too many acheive this on the high fat raw diet, he surely did not. You really need to see beyond the marketing and the fluff to understand the logic behind a lifestyle that incorporates natural hygiene. There are many success stories of converts from the high fat raw diet to Doug’s diet, there are a couple of very young (late teens) girls who failed on 80/10/10 (for what reasons I don’t know) and a lot was made of this. You read the information yourself and decide what makes more sense. As for the spices, once you stop them you will see they are nothing but a toxin, they will taste terrible once you have your true tastebuds back. I used to love onions, garlic, hot peppers, now I can’t be in the same room with someone who ate these toxic things. Doug’s forum is at
Ok, I just wanted to add my two cents about calories. It really nerves me to hear people say they need x amount of calories a day, and the reason for that is that calories are a measure of heat (energy) Yes, scientist grab a food, set it on fire, and measure how much “heat” is produced. Our bodies do NOT function in the same way as a torch! They way we process energy is so complex that we do not understand it. So yeah, thinking of calories is pretty irrelevant when we consider how much food we need to eat.
What we need to focus on is how nutrient-dense a food is. I haven’t read Dr. Graham (book is pricey!) but it seems like he encourages a nutrient-dense diet. If you’re eating the good stuff (that is, raw fruits and veggies and some nuts/seeds) and you’re not full, then there is no reason to keep chomping away on food..
Does this make sense? Did I totally go off on a tangent??
To clarify, I think 801010 diet has a lot of merit. People need to really consider it before turning it down simply because they can’t eat the enormous volumes of food it entails. Especially since the the measurement of “calories” is so irrelevant to how our body processes and utilizes the energy in food.
And socal -I have to agree with you. Natural hygiene is perhaps the most natural way of eating/living. Many people, however, (including myself!) are not ready to give up sea salt just yet. We are all on a path to better health, lets honor that.
I agree with Odalys; if you take the caloric “requirements” out of the equation, it’s an amazing and logical plan of eating. Fresh Juicy Fruits. Succulent Greens. Some yummy nuts. Listen to your body, eat when you are hungry. Don’t eat when you are not hungry. There ya go.