Atheist & Agnostics-Hi there!
Just as there are many people who do not believe in “God” there are many more who do not believe in “Satan”.
As far as Atheists, Agnostics, and those in many religions (other than Christianity) are concerned – Satan is a Christian creation.
We create our own heaven or hell here on earth. It’s our choice. They do not exist anywhere else.
Can we please keep the Christian topics in the Christian thread?
addendum/edit: I wish to point out, like mamamilk did, that this was written in response to a deleted post that someone wrote about ‘satan’
shgadwa you couldnt be more wrong and you obviously dont read thoroughly what people are saying! My point was PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY! THIS is very sad. and your satan speech was truly a weird rabbit trail that was not helpful to meditating as you claim to be trying to ‘answer a question’. i will not debate you. you are not supporting the people on this particular thread and my discussing this further with you is not supporting them either.
Meditating and greenghost – love and sorry.
edit: this was in response to a deleted post
To Meditating and Shgadwa both- Meditating, Eckart Tolle’s “A New Earth (and “The Power of Now”) explain how and why we people act in such horrendous and hurtful ways to others and how we can prevent it in ourselves. And Shgadwa, your questioning to “understand” multiple areas would be answered well by Tolle’s books. Perhaps if you read these books you wouldn’t need to question.
I cringe inside everytime I read or here “Christians” who put their belief so far out into “Christ” that they completely give away all of their own innate power, especially their self responsibility for what they think and do in their life. Ugh. Sad. That is exactly how and why some “Christians” are so easily manipulated and controlled. I believe in a greater Source or Energy, but I believe it is in us all, too, and that we have simply forgotten and once we remember and take resposibility for ourselves and our actions (or inactions), we will learn just how amazing we humans truly are and will not have need to fear and cause harm to others. We will not need to compete with each other (which is fear based), because we will know that we are all inter-related; in fact, that we are all One in the end so to harm another is only to harm ourselves and to help another succeed is to only help ourselves and us all succeed. We’re not really seperate from each other or anything in this world. That’s one reason I LOVE eating vegan raw. Haha. To relate it all back to raw. :) We are what we eat and when we eat out of love (appreciation and respect) for all, we become more loving and less seperated from All. That fog of “seperate” thinking lifts.
Just my two cents. :)
I love two cents and thanks for that book suggestion…..
Also, I deleted the ‘satan’ post.
Hi Winona!!! I am a spiritual, but not “religious” person. :) I believe, because I can feel it through my mind and body, that there is some kind of beautiful energy within me, within the world, and I revel in it, and love the way I feel when I connect with it. I feel it makes me a better person. But I don’t know what it is, and I don’t think that any religion has the “right” path. I think all paths lead to the same divine energy, which is a combination of all living things.
This is such an interesting conversation. I respect everyone’s beliefs, but don’t think I could be swayed from my own crazy ideas.
big hugs to all!
Hi littlebirdie (such a cute name),
What you said, is a matter of opinion here…
Sounds like Buddhism…somewhat.
The internet is full of opinions.
Lots of love a big internet hugs to all as well….
I wish you could give hugs on the internet….
shgadwa, I sat zazen for 18 years. :) So yeah, I am influenced by Buddhism in a big way. I took my bodhisattva vows, and still consider them valid. I want to help the world in as many ways that I can.
littlebirdie~ OMG!!!! You sat zazen for 18 years?? I sat zazen for 20 minutes once and thought my legs were going fall off. ;)
I am late to the topic but have read both the Christian and Atheist thread. For one, I am really glad that we are talking about other issues than food. I think it is a really healthy thing to do. We all get a little to obsessive about the raw thing sometimes, and it is good to take a breather. However, I dont think that this makes it ok to make homophobic statements either on a public forum. Gone Raw is a safe space for people, and homophobia should not be permited. Since it seams that Christians can’t help but spout homophobic self hating garbage, I think that shgadwa needs to be called out and held responsible for his hate speach.
I do not hate anyone….
And I am ignorant….what is a zazen?
obviously by hate speach circleakitchen meant hate speech…don’t pretend you didn’t know what that meant.
Learn to do research so you explore and be thoughtful…. look it up!
Bluedolfin, yeah, I sat at several zendos over the years. I have gone on many week-long sesshins. I ended up leaving the zendo a few years ago for a variety of reasons, but I still sit in quiet each morning. Sometimes I chant. I love the quiet spaces, love letting my mind experience nothiness, experience that absence of thought and force.
circleakitchen, yes, I agree with you. I support the rights of all gay, lesbian, and transgendered people. My grown daughter is lesbian, with a loving partner. I am proud of them, and wish they didn’t have to face so much misunderstanding and hate in this world.
May we love and cherish all people.
littlebirdie~ That is great. For me, it was part of my Aikido training… I think it was about 20 minutes… I was in much pain and numbness after the exercise so I don’t think I was thinking very straight… :O)
I second your response to circleakitchen. I also expand those sentiments to all peoples that are faced with ignorant treatment.
OK….I will research a zazen…..............
Please tell me of a hate speech…..that I did.
I found out how to do zazen sits…...Youtube is VERY helpful.
I am not ignorant anymore.
SIGHS...and the beat goes on, lol. Thanks to Kandace for reminding us why we are here!
shgadwa, there are conservatives here, there are liberals here, there are moderates here, there are anarchists here. There are people of many different religions (and atheists/agnostics) here. There are straight-but-not-narrow people here, and there are gay people here who fall into many different categories, both religious and political. Being that raw veganism is a little radical, even in vegetarian circles, you must surely have expected that, even before you registered. That’s one reason why I said there are better forums for this kind of discussion.
Also, to say that you ‘were partially caught up in homosexuality’ (that was in the other thread) because you were indiscriminate as to the porn you watched (and presumably wanked to) is very silly, and offensive to some folks here. You are VERY young. When I was your age, watching flies fornicate was sufficient to send me looking for an empty room that locked from the inside. And yes, I was obsessed with all things sexual. That is a very normal and natural part of being young. With the passage of time obsession fades, preferences (in literature, music, movies, and even porn) assert themselves, and self control comes. Some people have a lifelong warping obsession with porn and/or sex (pick a flavor), but most do not.
I’m not saying it’s right to make or watch porn. It’s not. But tell me…you are the sort who says things like ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’ when talking about gay people, yes? Are you the sort who believes that homosexuality is invariably the result of obsession, a flaw in parenting, or some form of addiction? Are you the sort who says it is against God’s wishes? Are you the sort who says that no one is born homosexual?
Like I said, I won’t get into a debate with you over any of this stuff. I don’t have the time, and you are just a young sprout who will learn A LOT in the years to come, without so much as an ounce of input from me. I’m going to try to make this my last post to this thread. But I am curious to see what you’ll say.
Wow, controversy is always interesting hey?
Hi Winona, I hope you’re enjoying gone raw.
I did Philosophy of Religion at A-Level and ended up more confused than ever (Try debating this stuff for 2 years and see if it happens to you to!!). I’m not going to put a label on myself though, christian, hindu, muslim, athiest, agnostic.. Really? Theyre just words. Too many wars in this world can be attributed to them and what they mean or dont mean to different people. Its actions that count.
From a psychological point of view (where of course we ARE all the same!)I think religion comes out of human need to ‘belong’ as identified in Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. This is what he said about belonging, the 3rd need, from wikipedia ;-)
After physiological and safety needs are fulfilled, the third layer of human needs is social. This psychological aspect of Maslow’s hierarchy involves emotionally-based relationships in general, such as:
having a supportive and communicative family
Humans need to feel a sense of belonging and acceptance, whether it comes from a large social group, such as clubs, office culture, religious groups, professional organizations, sports teams, gangs, (“Safety in numbers”) or small social connections (family members, intimate partners, mentors, close colleagues, confidants). They need to love and be loved (sexually and non-sexually) by others. In the absence of these elements, many people become susceptible to loneliness, social anxiety, and depression. This need for belonging can often overcome the physiological and security needs, depending on the strength of the peer pressure. e.g. an anorexic ignores the need to eat and the security of health for a feeling of control and belonging.”
Whether that need is met in your pets, your family, your plants your religion.. It boils down to a human need – if you agree with Maslow of course. Makes sense to me, no-one should push there views on anyone.
If I learnt anything from R.E its no-one really knows and everyone will differ, but that’s what makes us human. There’s good and bad, positive and negative. i just try to be the good and the positive.
Love, Life & Happiness. Thats what I believe in.
ok…i’m not even going to try to cover up my next comment with respect.
comparing homosexuality to having a cold is the stupidest non-logical argument i have witnessed in a long while.
Sorry, I realise that is to paxton but,.. I know its off track and I realise it was an answer as you said.
I have many gay friends and would love to shake their parents by the hand (if I met them all) for raising such wonderful people, as with all my friends.
Here’s some info from a scientific website,
“There is no single gay gene, but genes do contribute â€“ and considers the effect of sex hormones to which foetuses are exposed in the womb. Children cannot be seduced or otherwise led into homosexuality and, however overbearing the mother or absent the father, no amount of poor parenting can waylay a child born to walk the path of heterosexuality. “
You say you want to know what people think about different things? Have a look at the link, its interesting. There’s lots of research you can do into hormones that effect us in the womb which can be linked to sexuality, nothing to do with the parent or the child – But if that’s the case, well, That must be gods choice right?
As I said earlier, I wont try to force anyone to see my view, I realise that is yours, but at least be informed and do some research. Its called keeping an open mind.
You say your sisters rebelling, I was once a 19 year old girl and would probably rebel if anything was forced on to me or where I couldnt make up my own mind. Clearly I dont know you or her and that may of course be far from the real situation but if it is, it could be something to think about if you wanted to help her.
I hope you take that in the way it was intended.. Good luck
But scientists need a little thing called ‘Evidence’ worth bearing in mind.
And dont just shake a hand – give them a big fat hug!
We need more hugs horay! Maybe all this is sending me slightly dolally..
Folks, let’s get back on topic here and actually allow people the space to support each other.
I thoguht there had to be something like that.
ASPIRE – Thanks for recommending Mr Toll’s book. I have read his work recommended on this site before under a different topic. From your comments, it sound like he may be offering a perspective in line with some buddhist teachings. I find those type of teachings to make more sense as far as explaining how things work. I do believe we are all the same thing and connected via our consciousness in a way I am not able to explain yet. Indeed, human problems seem to stem from believing we are separate when we aren’t.
I am looking for ways to save in this economy and think I will start visiting the library more often even if this means I will miss writing in the books. In school I really learned the process of creating detailed outlines, which helps me remember the materials anyway. I will look for Mr. Toll’s book. Thanks.
LITTLE BIRDIE – I have been sitting for almost 2 years and daily for the last year. It has changed my life and personality for the better. Most of the teachings I have had are from a wise and wonderful Tibetan monk, but all the ceremonial formalities give me flashbacks to catholicism so I am not big on those. From what I understand, the way I was taught to meditate (from a Shambhala instructer) is very Zen because I couldn’t get with the Tibetan practice of visualization. Most of the things I enjoy reading have been Zen. I feel so fortunate to have been introduced to these teachings and practices. It is a radical departure from what I was raised to believe. .
One of my friends took her bodhisattva vows a little over a year ago. That is a significant commitment. I commend you for your decision.
Meditating~ Try freecycle.com for a free copy of Tolle’s book (and others for that matter). Oprah had the book as one of her selections so there are tons of them floating around. Also on *Oprah’s site * there is a workbook you can either download or complete online along with discussions with Tolle, a series of “after class” discussions, meditations, practices, and a growing library of discussions with different “spiritual” folks including Wayne Dyer and Jill Bolte Taylor (a brain scientist that had a massive stroke and talks/wrote about observing herself going through the stroke from a scientist’s POV, really fascinating). It’s all under Oprah’s Spritual Series. It would be great to form a group if people are interested in discussing the book and other Series offerings… :)
BLUE DOLPHIN Wow, thanks for the info on freecycle.com. That sounds wonderful and I will check out Oprah’s site. I was having a philosophical discussion with an acquaintance the other night and I think he may have been telling me about Jill Bolte Taylor. He could not remember her name but said he was fascinated with a book he read about a female neuroscientist that had a stroke and wrote about her experiences, which were inline with our conversation. I am going to check that out too. Good timing. Thanks.
I wish I could find some locals who would share my interest in book topics. The two small, local buddhist groups come together to do a weekly study group. I start every book with them but they just aren’t reading the kind of material I want to read so I don’t end up attending more than the first three meetings on a book. I know you can’t always get to read just what you prefer but I have made no connection to their materials to date at all. I shop at a very interesting small grocery store where most of the people there are rather alternative. I might find a book and post a request for interested readers there.
I don’t believe children are “raised” with a religion; I believe that parents sometimes choose to have a religion and perhaps bring a child to a certain location where that religion is practiced.
Once I thought about the issue, I realized I was an atheist.
Support to everyone here!! :)
Meditating~ My privilege. That is cool! It does sound like that is the person y’all were discussing. Dr. Taylor also has a video/audio of a lecture she gave on ted.com (really cool stuff there also, out-of-the-box thinkers and doers).
That is a good idea to post at the grocery store. You might also start a “book club” meetup on meetup.com that can dovetail with your grocery store posting. You also might find others in the area who are more inline with your reading preferences have already started up a group on meetup (if you haven’t already explored there).