Atheist & Agnostics-Hi there!
People were says they couldn’t find this thread since the changes so I am bumping it to the top of the list!
thanks queenfluff I do not post often but I do keep up on this one
Hey everyone I will put my oar in to tell you I am a Bright: I hold a naturalistic world view that doesn’t require supernatural beings. See us at http://the-brights.net to read up on the most thinking group of atheists I have ever found.
tummybetter – if you’re still reading this, i’m wondering – is there a forum for brights to discuss?
I love the concept of the brights! They define it as:
‘Persons who have a naturalistic worldview should not be culturally stifled or civically marginalized due to societyâ€™s extensive supernaturalism. Rather, they ought to be accepted as fellow citizens and full participants in the cultural and political landscape.’
I LOVE this statement:
‘We intend to work to create a social awareness that the constituency and the naturalistic worldview need to be accepted for what they are, and not be defined as a negation of a religious point of view.’
Another atheist here. :)
Hi violincyndee! Do you have any reading materials or websites that you found useful? I’m still searching for answers to so many questions. So far, I’ve found these authors helpful: Eckhart Tolle, Pema Chodron.
Hi Winona! I love this site, but it has probably been mentioned here:
I actually don’t actively ‘seek’ answers, but more: I just don’t think about it all too much. Religion is a such non-entity in my life. I focus more of my mental/emotional energy on animals and activism for animals. :)
How interesting! I never think about religion either. I search for answers in a non religious way – how do we raise our awareness? How to we help those in need? How do we form deep connections with other humans, setting our ego aside? How do we achieve our goals? How do we raise other’s conciousness to care about the environment and other humans?
I’d like to be more of an activist to keep superstition/religion out of politics.
I also try to spend time advocating for animals. In fact, I’m attending school part time in order to enter an animal care profession.
Yes I also agree about separations of superstition and politics! Very cool that you are going to be doing animal care—what will you be doing? I spend more time on animal rights activism than on freedom of (non) religion, though..if the topic comes up I will totally defend our rights.
I’m not afraid of death. The reason is summed up quite nicely in the following quote. Unfortunately the exact wording and original author escapes me, but the general gist of it is this:
“I don’t fear death, because I imagine being dead will be a lot like being unborn. I was unborn, you see, for a very large span of time and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
Lovely quote Elizabeth! I like to think that I will just get recycled back into the soil, and feed some worms, – then maybe a blackbird or two… ;-)
I am sure that all of you on GoneRaw are very intelligent people. Anyone who is Raw or thinking about going Raw is pretty smart. So why do some of you believe in Christianity? Im sure you christians have NEVER read the bible. It says that homosexuals should die and that women are not allowed to speak in church and that they should worship their husband like they worship God. And the bible also supports slavery. Now you might think “Well they changed it and thats not in the new bible”. OK now theres what is dumb. So someone somewhere is actually allowed to just change the word of God and 2000 year old book? really? lol You Christians should get your story straight. I thought God loved everyone. Shouldnt you be allowed to be yourself? So if you’re a homosexual you have to pretend not to be??? what the… and I have the name of chapters of passages that prove everything I said. Just ask.
1. All the Christians I know read the Bible. Though it doesn’t take away from your point, stating that Christians never read the Bible will put them on the defensive and much less open to hear your viewpoints.
2. Although I admire your nerve, approaching their faith from that angle of attack once again wont change any ones mind, it just makes the people more defensive when they run into atheists again in the future, which shouldn’t happen if we ever want to change their view.
I agree that there are things in the Bible that are unexplainable, and many passages contradict those that came before, and that its foolishness if you studied the Bible’s history to believe in it at all. But those people don’t have to agree with all the Bible’s teachings to be a Christian or religious.
I know many Christians who dont believe in organized religion, instead relying on the direct link they believe they have with God. They dont read the Bible, but that doesnt matter. Its where INDIVIDUALS hearts are that mattered. The individual has a choice to say “well if there is something homosexual in the Bible, thats just plain dumb, I dont agree with it” and then be on their way with more important lessons the Bible can teach them.
I know your new here, and Im not trying to get on your case, but classifying all Christians in a statement that they all never read the Bible, or believe everything in the Bible is wrong. I
Now if you come here and start harping on James Dobson or any other prolific Christian thinker for their interpretation of the Bible, then Im all for it. In fact, even if you debate whether a certain church’s interpretation of it is wrong Im all for that too. But to lump all christians in one group shrugs.
We are never going to have a world full of atheist’s. Hell, even atheist’s are spiritual to some extent. Myself, I feel divinity through nature. The mountains, the trees, the water. Even sometimes through people. But every changed mind helps with removing Christianity from our lives, but attacking them without them attacking you first or bringing it up in a undebatable way will most of the time prove to themselves that they are right.
Christians believe they are martyrs when persecuted for their beliefs. Even a simple question can be construed as an attack.
I’m not against what your trying to say just to let you know…
Thanks JKD for your post. I know I probably semmed rude there. I am just very angry right now at a Christian Co-worker who wont shut up about God and tells me Im a Satanist because I dont believe in her religion and I guess I was a little pissed. Also came across the Christian Forum just before typing this.
Sorry if I offended any of you christians.
TAMY IN CANADA – I understand you completely and most atheists or agnostics know where you are coming from. I have had limited positive encounters with those who identify themselves as christians. The intolerance can really work your nerves. Under those circumstances, it is much harder to keep your cool and we all slip and rant at one time or another. Whenever I catch myself going there, and I do, I just remind myself that thinking that way makes me just like them. If that doesn’t turn you around then nothing will.
See, now were talking!
I’ve been very angry at my Christian friends many times. Even at my mom. So there we can relate! Like I said, its not really your co-workers religion telling you you are a satanist, its the person. Christianity does influence many characteristics of someone, just as atheism does, but that doesnt give someone a right to be an ass when you tell them your beliefs ;)
When I tell my coworkers (who are all christian or mormon) that I am atheist, I do not get stared at, leered at, or preached too. We have a open discussion about it and every thing is fine! Im sure in their hearts they secretly pray for me, which if it makes them feel better I hope it helps. shrugs
Its funny how she called you a Satanist. If you told her you dont believe in God, what makes her think your believe in Satan then? Satan and God are the same story haha!
Hi everyone, it is nice to find this thread! I’m an atheist too, so it is nice to talk to like minded people. jkd-I think the reason the christian called her a satanist is because of the christian belief that if you are not a saved christian, then you are for satan. I used to be a christian for 15 years.
JKD SOCCER Your point about satan and god being the same story is dead on. My experience has been you can’t reason with people when doing so is contrary to their beliefs. Religion isn’t about reasoning. However, when you meet a christian who respects religious freedom, doesn’t use their beliefs as a way to separate themselves from others, and doesn’t buy into the hatred thing (which they usually refer to as “love”), you have met a wonderful soul.
TAMY IN CANADA – I know why she was called a satanist, as I have dealt with the same thing. Those who would say that believe all good can only flow from god and anything contrary is from the devil. Therefore anyone rejecting the existence of god is a tool of satan and by definition a satanist. It makes you want to scream, “Go take a class in logic.”
BEWARE – If they get a rile out of you, they might think they were rebuking the devil from inside you. You might never get rid of them then. Expect to be sprayed with holy water next.
Ahh. I was a christian till I was 22. That just goes to show how much I paid attention in church. I was usually off reading Star Wars or drawing on the back of the sermon schedule ;) It still amazes me that that belief is so black and white allowing for no middle ground.
Meditating-we must have been typing at the same time. You said exactly what I meant, but much more eloquently! :)
QUIORA – We were typing at the same time because when my post appeared your was above it and I thought you just said the same thing. I usually type with one hand while lying down so I am really slow.
I was raised christian and would describe myself as deeply religious until I began questioning the faith altogether in my mid-twenties. I always took issue with the rampant hypocrisy I experienced but I thought those were personal failings. If you actually believe the teachings, then those are truly personal failings.
JKD SOCCER – I suspect a reason why so many christians see the world as black and white is that it serves as a control mechanism and they can take comfort in not having to think issues through abd find solutions in difficult situations. It also helps people elevate themselves if the can think X is bad so if I am Y then I am not bad.
Tamy, I don’t blame you for getting irked. I just finished reading the latest whinings in the “Christians” thread, and almost vomited into my mouth. They feel they are being persecuted, which is typical. The way I see it, when you take a punch at someone, expect to be slapped back. Every time they take a spanking, they run off crying.
I know it’s hard, but please don’t be angry when some moron calls you a “Satanist”. Anyone who talks chit to you is a pig, and why bother answering a pig? It’s not like it’ll understand you:-D Personally, I consider that name-calling to be major harrassment, but that’s me. And to be honest, there are precious few real Christians in this country(U.S.A.).
A real Christian is humble and charitable, not a whining, sniveling, hate-filled cretin who justifies every evil move.
Maybe it’s because I have one Catholic and one Jewish parent, and was taught not to abuse the name of God, but I feel a sort of disgust at the way many Christians shriek the name of God and Jesus over and over in public, obviously glorifying themselves with the name, and not God.
I feel that when folks let their ego take over, bad things happen. TomsMom is describing a case of ego. In this case, particular people who choose to use religion as a tool to feed their ego, make them believe that they are more holy/more religion/more saved/more godly than others.
It is very sad when the ego is talking, telling others ‘you’re immoral unless you believe in xyz’.
Naturally, I’m fine with all religions and with all belief systems. When these systems interfere with MY rights, this causes a serious problem.
I’m truly, sincerely terrified that a law might be passed banning abortion. If I accidently got pregnant, I wouldn’t hesitate to abort, as my personal BELIEF SYSTEM indicates that an unborn is not a person. Naturally, I make every effort possible to protect myself against impregnation, as I despise pregnancy, children, traditional family life, and so on. I am a very kind person with lots of friends, and I take the greatest loving care of my animals – but I cannot stand the idea of having a creature growing inside me, it’s too disturbing for me to comprehend. I’m deeply offended that others would seek to impose their believe system on me – lowlifes like Sarah Palin, for example.
jkd_soccer801 I wish I could run across the christians that you speak of. The only ones I have run into are those trying there very best to indoctrinate me and totally believe everything in the bible is correct and who have never taken the time to research their own doctrines. And who constantly tell me I’m going to hell.
TamyInCanada in my opinion it’s not a “sin” to be upset. Personally I believe that you should try your best to live at peace and tranquility to control your own soul, stress and health, but everyone gets pissed every now and again. If you are always getting attacked by people who proclaim to be apart of a certain group, then it almost instinctual that a person attacks back.
I consider myself a very peace loving person who gets along with anybody who strives for peace, but I’m not the turn the other cheek type.
TomsMom you wrote:
They feel they are being persecuted, which is typical
Real Persecution is when a person is beaten, stabbed, tortured, jailed, burned alive, drawn and quartered, etc… for their beliefs; persecution is NOT: healthy, fiesty, raw and real debates and discussions (good, bad and ugly). Gahh. I think very few people in the USA know what persecution is. As crazy as things are getting in this country, compared to most of the world, we still have it pretty good…. for a little while at least. ; )
Sadly, everyone has hotbuttons and has the propensity to become jerks at the turn of a dime. For me, (a God believer/follower), I’m learning to walk in love, don’t claim to have all the ‘answers’, be a peaceful, honoring, respectful person who responds when necessary and ignores when necessary. Some conversations and people just aren’t worth it. Maybe I’m a bit of an optimist when it comes to life and the possibility of us living together in peace. It grieves me to see all the bad/ugly experiences that people have…. but really, all the news, world events, wars, and people living in pain on this planet causes me often to yell at MYSELF, ”...and you think you have problems??”
JKD Soccer – nice responses.
mamamilk I disagree.
While I believe healthy debate is fine, there sure as hell can be Verbal Persecution.
Just like physical abuse is not the only form of abuse.
Psychological torment can often (if not always) leave longer lasting scars.
PS: I know plenty of people who have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from years of verbal & psychological abuse
PS2: And I’m positive that there are a lot of people in America that have and DO suffer. Persecution & Abuse is UNIVERSAL.
I’m sorry, but I really think that you are oversimplifying things. America has many good aspects, but it is hardly an EDEN to the rest of the world. It is just different and there is plenty of physical abuse too.
Thank you and Good point greenghost. You are correct that I did oversimplify to make a point. Thank you for this correction. I am reminded of many of my friends here and the stories throughout the course of this thread that indeed were horrible and abusive. I appreciate your insight, yes, a lot of people do suffer in America – fewer than do not suffer in my opinion, but yes there is suffering. My aunt was the director of child development for the entire state of NC and between the regular old news and her inside stories, children are but one group who are enduring mental suffering on different levels in this country… definately not eden.
I think one of the most troublesome things about psychological abuse/persecution (particularly of children) is that it’s effects can’t be very objectively measured and treatment is not necessarily straightforward ~ compared with most physical injuries anyway… and the long-term damage can be so devastating.
Ya’ll bring up excellent points! It is terribly sad when children have to suffer… they aren’t in a position to defend themselves. It does have lasting effects on their life. What can we do to alleviate the suffering? Are there any child aide programs that work?
Woo, being called a Satanist is harsh I think – that woman probably has serious issues.
I would love to be a Christian and have lovely thoughts about eternal life in Heaven but I have to say most of the Christians I know, including those in my family, are bigots. I have an aunt, who is 96 and is a nun and she comes out with the most unchristian things (bless her) at times, it is quite hilarious. But I love her nonetheless and if she wants to go to church and gets pleasure from watching all the rituals, then that’s fine. It is only when I am coralled into the christian campaign that I go all cold and want to heave my guts up. If anyone comes up with any christian talk, I tend to just nod and smile and make out I agree with them because I have had all the arguments and been told I’m the fallen woman blah blah, and Meditating is quite right, you can end up with the Holy Water treatment. It is sooo not worth it.
I expect people think I am a coward for not speaking my mind, but it is more that I want to be at peace with those people.