Clean, Icelandic fish; to eat or not to eat, that is the question.
I was gonna say, of course meat eaters affect the demand for factory farmed meat. So what if you eat “free range” meat? You’re getting less antibiotics in your system, but there still is a protein cycling that requires a 20-1 consolidation of inputs to get that meat, plus all the resultant waste is no different than a factory farm’s (they don’t crap any less), and you’re still killing the thing that didn’t ask to be killed.
The only difference is a little bit less of toxic man-made chemicals in your system…nothing else.
So 90% or so of meat eaters eat factory farmed meat and the other 10% get less toxic crap in their systems? So what?
Hey the Okinawans drink moderately. Maybe that’s the secret. Or the island lifestyle, or the karate. If they didn’t eat fish, they could live to 120!
The point is, raw fish isn’t the poison you make it out to be. You’re completely full of it. Have fun injuring yourself.
My understanding is that the Hunza people of the Himalaya live the longest. No fish there, but they do have a nearly completely vegan diet!
Actually, it IS pretty poisonous nowadays, and animal protein, and unnecessary, and unnecessarily cruel to them, and depleting the oceans, which affects the whole oceanic ecosystem.
I think your insults say more about you than they do about me. Peace and compassion to you.
Grass-fed cows eat grass. Humans cannot eat grass. Cows do nothing to harm the planet when they eat their natural diet. Chickens forage for worms. Humans don’t eat worms. Chickens do nothing to harm the planet when eating their natural diet. Chickens and cattle produce droppings which fertilize the soil they eat from.
I don’t eat cows or chickens that are fed an unnatural diet.
About overfishing, bad fishing practices are responsible for that – not people who eat fish. No-fishing zones might solve that problem.
By your logic, I could say that everyone who eats bananas is destroying the planet, because rainforests are clear-cut to make room for banana plantations.
And the Hunza do not have anything close to a “nearly completely vegan diet,” and their claims of longevity have never been well documented.
I respect your choice to not consume animal products (for ethical reasons, or whatever), but don’t pretend your diet is perfect, because it’s not.
No, that logic doesn’t follow. You don’t seem to get the 20-to-1 ratio of resources that are used to raise meat, free range or not. Sixteen to twenty (or more) people could be fed on the grains and water used to raise each pound of meat. Twenty to one!
70% of the rainforest is being cleared to make rangeland for cattle. Guess what the other 30% is being used for? Farmland to grow crops to feed cattle. If that’s not totally irresponsible, I don’t know what is.
We have more than enough food to feed the world, and yet more than 10,000 people starve to DEATH EACH DAY because we feed so much of it to lifestock to appease the tastes of the better off.
The banana trees are the some of the plants being cleared!
Mr. Mickmaster wrote: “70% of the rainforest is being cleared to make rangeland for cattle. Guess what the other 30% is being used for? Farmland to grow crops to feed cattle. If thatâ€™s not totally irresponsible, I donâ€™t know what is.”
70% + 30% = 100%. You just said that 100% of cleared rainforest is used to raise or feed cattle, which couldn’t possibly be true. You keep trying to pass distortions off as facts.
Anyways, I don’t contribute to that problem, so you can’t blame me for that. My diet consists of about 5% animal products, and it’s all locally, sustainably, and humanely raised (except for the fish).
People starve because of the unequal distribution of wealth, not because there’s not enough food.
I agree that people do eat way too much meat and dairy though.
Rainforest Alliance Certified Bananas: http://www.rainforest-alliance.org/banana/banan…
iceland is an awesome place… the shrimps as SO sweet and the drinking water is so tasty. i would go back just for the water alone LOL.
enjoy your fish there….gonna be tough being raw in iceland.
I think Mickmaster means that 100% (or damn close) of the land currently being cleared in the rainforest is being cleared to grow animal feed. And he is absolutely right.
I also think it is rude and arrogant of you to come onto a raw vegan site and tell everyone here that our diet is incomplete, unnatural, and that we’re going to suffer deficiencies. The dozens (if not hundreds) of raw vegans on this site who are happy, healthy, and not deficient in anything are proof otherwise.
aaaha…i’m on nobody’s side, as i am neither fully vegan (fish once in a while + leather shoes) nor do i fully follow Kevlar’s logic, though Kevlar seems to make a lot more sense than many of the people who have tried to argue with him…
but i just wanted to point out the rather interesting phenomenon we have just witnessed. dodo first argues with another voraciously, aggressively, and without fear of using personal insults, and then finishes it off by saying “namaste.”
I agree with elizabeth
Most the others I think I agree to disagree. At least I am not picking sides….
Its a fishy conversation ;)
good for you, dodo:-)
Go f### yourself.
Unless you get all your food locally, you’re messing up this planet. If you’ve ever eaten a banana, pineapple or coconut, you’re guilty. Is that logic hard to follow?
Anyways, keep popping your pills, and I’ll keep eating my fish.
If every negative comment was replied with another negative comment, that is all that would be left.
Lets try turning negative into positive, maybe a difference will become of it….
Live, Love Peace.
It seems to be a sad trend that more and more GR members are unable to discuss a topic without nasty responses to imaginary insults or just nasty responses in general. If I didn’t know better, it would think there was a direct correlation between eating raw foods and being disagreeable and/or illogical thinking.
While there is no doubt heavy meat consumption has a negative health and environmental impact, as do most things mankind commercializes (exception being intentional sustainable projects), it has been a mainstay for many vegans to disagree with anything a meat eater says and to blame them for all the world’s ills. There are plenty of devils to go around in every group, including vegans.
If figuring out complex problems so meaningful solutions can be had, this kind of discourse is never going to get us there.
QUIORA To comment on your post, which I did not think was intended as an assault – While there have been studies in the past that indicate newly cleared land is used to grow grains to feed cattle, that has been outstripped for at least the past two years by those who grow grains for biofuels. Biofuel crops are much more profitable and have been found to be responsible for app. 80% of the rise in world food prices.
In some parts of the world, ranchers have had to lower the price of their cattle because biofuels have driven grain prices up to where it is too expensive to feed cattle. Biofuels are now more profitable to grow than food crops due to the surge in oil prices. Another downside is that the carbon footprint of processing biofuels actually contributes more to global warming than fossil fuels like gas/oil.
The rise of the middle-class in India and Asia is contributing to more demand for meat products, if the biofuel market holds steady then the cost of these products may soon make them an occasional treat rather than a diet mainstay.
More Americans are willing to call themselves flexitarians for environmental reasons, I suspect many are also motivated by financial decline.
We are now overfishing the last 9% of the ocean’s fish. That source is going to dry up very soon for commercial fishermen. Fish farming will soon be the only alternative.
As world populations soar and food resources are strained, these factors should eventually lead to an overall decline in meat consumption. I suspect that would be many years out though.
Thank you meditating for your 20 cents. Its appreciated.
It is very sad that people cannot get along these days. But I am not surprised because this is just the way Jesus said it would be.
Even friends and family members (in my book, them being vegan, raw, or not, makes almost no difference) are often against each other. They swear, fight, kick, beat, yell, and even kill often for little reasons. The largest percentage of murders these days have been by family members and friends. Close friends even.
So, yes… this is VERY VERY sad, and I agree with you.
Back to fish (please)
So, fish is a great (supposedly) food and it might just be the reason (in part) why many Icelanders are often very ambitious, energetic and NOT lazy. Though all their meats and most of their food is organic. But, they are into vaccines (its mandatory) and lots of candy.
But the problem with fish is its often polluted…right? But then, Icelandic being VERY clean helps a lot…. right?
As far as it being wrong to kill something…. The way I see it is this.
~ We are not animals. I AM NOT, an animal. I refuse to be called an animal, no offense. And like someone else said here, a fish would eat you if you were the size of a small shrimp.
Furthermore, Jesus ate fish. God said it was ‘OK’ to eat animals (though most I rather not eat, I am a vegan still, now).
Also, fish fills in on vitamin D, B12, omega 3’s and 6’s and much more… I suppose (?), the good outweighs the bad, especially in Iceland.
Thanks a ton!
(if) fish is ‘healthy’ (Dr. Mercola says it is ;) ), then I know it is best to eat it raw.
My question is
1. do Icelanders eat fish raw? I imagine so but I do not know.
2. how can you prepare raw fish so it tastes good??? Do you just eat it like so, I doubt that.
3. if the fish is not raw, what is the best way to cook it.
4. are some types of fish better raw, or cooked?
Thanks and God bless,
LOL no dodo, don’t be sorry i wasn’t offended, i think you have a right to defend yourself. but, it was very clear that you were not just defending yourself, you were supplementing your defense with offense. i have no problem with that, but following it with “namaste” as a peace declaration is extremely amusing to me..
Beli, It sounds like your mind is made up, and you are going to eat fish because you heard the Icelandic people do. Well, there are Icelandic vegans and raw foodists who don’t. REmember in Genesis, the Lord said “I give you all the plants and seeds of the earth, for they shall be your food.”
As someone said earlier, the oceans are nearly depleted. Some commercial species are now considered extinct for all practical purposes.
Do you know what bycatch is? That’s all the fish that are caught in the nets with the target fish. According to the U.S. National Marine Fisheries Service, in the Gulf of Mexico, three pounds of bycatch are caught for every pound of shrimp that goes to market. According to the Worldwide Fund for Nature, in the Gulf of Thailand it can be 14 pounds of bycatch per pound of shrimp.
Dolphins and endangered sea turtles are caught with fish and suffocate and are discarded with every catch.
This is a vegan site. There are Icelanders who don’t eat fish. You don’t need to eat fish.
And maybe if we quit killing other animals on this planet, we’ll be more compassionate toward each other. Peace.
Mr. Mickmaster, thank you for posting this. Can you refer me to some websites that provide more information? Sorry to say, I didn’t know about this. On very rare occasions I do eat sashimi (never meat). I think this is what I needed to push me over the edge and cut it out completely.
Thank you Mr. Mickmaster….
My mind is not made up, at all.
To be honest, I would much rather not eat it. (I am a vegan). If then I would not eat it, I would want to have a good reason not to. (other than just because of because). I agree that pollutants is a good reason to not eat it.
Anyhow, I do like that passage in Genesis.
Also, I do not like it when animals get abused. I am not in line with all these people that talk about how killing animals is wrong, and such and such.
God gave us dominion over animals (according to Genesis). Furthermore, God killed two animals for Adam and Eve’s clothing (while they were still ‘vegetarian’).
For those that think that is just a bunch of crap, ignore it then.
Anyhow, it is very wrong to abuse animals and I side in with you on that. The root of it (what it boils down to) is really sin. It is because these companies want to make more money. Why do you think there are growth hormones in milk and dairy products? Its because they need to make more money.
They want money sooner just as they want a cow bigger faster. So, they give it growth hormones. They are feeding the cow grains instead of grass, and so they need to give the cow drugs and antibiotics to keep it from growing too big of tumors.
Once they have the milk, it is toxic and not drinkable. But, they still want to make more money and cannot afford to throw away ALL that milk, so they add the chemicals to it, which ‘fixes’ it. It is all so that they can make money. That is why MSG is in foods now a days. Its because the food is cheap and tasteless, so they water it down with water, thicken it and add MSG and high fructose corn syrup (or if its ‘healthy’, sugar and salt), this makes it taste ‘good’. Its to make more money. Then they say that it is 99% fat free when really its fat by weight, they water the product down, thicken it and flavor it.
Its all just to make money. Same as in fishing.AND, I HATE, it. I hate this world, full of people who are like this. I want nothing to do with it, honestly.
There are hardly any honest people these days, EVEN among organic food products. Though it seems organic is generally better in quality, taste, health, and the like.
Well then, I might not eat fish. I suppose it is a non-issue, right now. I here that fish is expensive too (I did not know that). So if I stay in Reykjavik, I ought to be able to get produce.
Well, Goodnight you all.
Beli, Thanks for reading my post. The commercial fishing link above talks a bit about the big business of commercial fishing. It’s just a big feedlot on the sea….
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I think the big F and some earlier abusive comments by someone here could be considered one or more of the bold terms above and should not be tolerated.
I’m sure this thread was not started in total innocence. So we shouldn’t get angry at each other, no. At the same time, I’m finding this constant defense of new posters who insist on starting eating-flesh threads to be not only tiresome, but suspect. They often wind up going at the pure vegans, which is wrong.
Thanks, Mr. Mickmaster. I’m officially done with the very occasional sashimi, and am embarrassed by my profound ignorance on this matter.
Oh, Mon! Yes! Peace.
I didn’t come to this site with a bad opinion of vegans, but I’m leaving it with one. You have no tolerance for differing opinions, and every time anyone says anything to suggest that your diet isn’t perfect, you feel the need to silence them, or shut them up. I was just warning you about what needs to be done in order to stay healthy on the raw vegan diet, as according to your own experts , but you attacked me like a pack of wild freaking animals. I hope you’re proud of yourselves.
And I never said f### once. Call the cops on me, you wimp. Ban me. Silence another person whose only offense was saying something you didn’t agree with.
Another thing, I encourage everyone to google every “fact” that comes out of these people’s mouths, because they’ve proven that they’ll twist the truth to support their opinions.
I agree that we need to stop overfishing, but don’t condemn everyone who eats fish, you arrogant c###suckers.
Kevlar, for the respect of the other individuals here, I would like it if you would not verbally attack people in these walls.
I appreciate all of your information you hand out here, and even sourcing them. But I don’t appreciate the way you are acting towards others.
That goes for everyone else who got into the battle, because this was sure not one sided. If you don’t agree with someone, please just state your side in a friendly manner.
There is no need to judge because someone eats meat, is vegan, raw, not raw, sex, race, etc.. A lot of people here preach for respect towards animals, keep in mind WE ARE A PART OF THE ANIMAL KINGDOM, lets respect each other and stop pointing fingers, please!
Thanks for understanding.
Live, Love, Peace