High Fat vs High Sugar/Nuts vs Fruitarianism
Someone mentioned eating no fats until dinner and if they added avocado to their salad with dinner, they felt better. That's great that you felt better, but it's inaccurate to say you had NO FAT prior. FRUIT AND GREENS HAVE FAT. If people don't know/recognize this basic fact, I have a hard time figuring out how they think they had enough information to thrive on any diet.
I like low fat high fruit personally. More fat in the winter (avocadoes mostly) than summer. I'm an athlete, though. I don't think sedentary people do well on any diet. I think it's contrary to our nature to be sedentary.
I don't get the comments on can't wait for me and 59 to respond..... why don't you just post for me then? Oh, wait, that's right, the OP wanted varied opinions and probably an HONEST opinion from each of us. My bad for being honest.
I think it's cool to transition with higher fat foods, as you may need to do so for a month or two. But then cut the salt, oils, nuts, seeds (except here adn there a brazil nut), coconuts, bragg's, vinegars, spices out, and your excretions will finally not stink.
I'm not a big advocate of 811 on this site, btw, jackrabbit, and I don't need anyone else to speak for me. I'm an advocate of people doing what's best for their bodies. The answer will become obvious as you move along.
That was intended to be a friendly gesture, since the regulars on this board seem to know where each other's stand and I think its funny. And we pretty much agree anyway so don't worry about it
Anyway, the question was pretty much answered long ago, I think
Well, I've tried high-fat raw vegan diets, and found they totally don't work for me--I need to keep fats down to 10% or so to feel good and function well. However, thankfully, I feel free to do what I want beyond the 'low fat' principal and am not a doug graham groupie or a door-to-door 8/11 salesmen.
You should definitely follow a basic, standard raw vegan diet when just starting and find your own way from there.
I dont see why eating so much fruit is bad for you:S I eat it everyday and alot of it!!! It gives me alot of energy and it doesnt do anything to me:O. I also make green soups during the day. I say eat more fruit!! It is healthy and you will not gain weight!!!
My personal opinion is that you can do all the research in the world before you go raw, and you might be led into a direction you never expected once you actually do go raw. You've GOT to listen to your body... to how it feels, to what it truly craves...
When I started my journey I wanted nothing to do with nuts and I avoided oils as much as possible..
Now I eat nuts, oils, etc. sometimes. Sometimes I eat a LOT of them, sometimes I don't really eat them at all. I start to feel sluggish if I don't get enough of them, but if I eat too much, it weighs me down, especially digestively speaking, haha.
As for fruit, I tend to snack on mostly fruit. My body handles fruit better than anything else. I have an easier time digesting it, mostly. But you have to do what works for YOU.
I couldn't handle eating mostly greens like I wanted to, because my stomach simply can't tolerate it.
Your body will tell you what it needs, but you have to be a very good listener.
Don't deprive yourself of anything. Don't avoid nuts just because someone else claims it's wrong for them. If you feel like you need some to get that extra pep in your step and to satisfy pesky cravings... then by all means help yourself. And cravings DO need to be dealt with in order to stay on the right track. It's MUCH better you grab for those raw cashews, than grabbing for a cheeseburger later down the road when you've deprived yourself to that point. you know?
Surely anything you're going to be doing for your body on a raw diet, is going to probably be a hundred times better than anything you ate on a SAD diet, so I wouldn't get too picky about nuts, oils, etc. I'm telling you, I've eaten a half of a jar of cashew butter in a day, and I'm 105 pounds... the fat content of raw nuts, oils, avocado is more "quality" than the fats that are a normal part of a SAD diet. your body will digest them better and use up the calories in a more efficient manner. If I would ever have eaten as much as I do now, as a SAD eater...oh my god I'd have been morbidly obese haha.
your body knows what to do with these wonderful things you're putting in it, if you don't abuse it.
Tweedle, thanks so much, your reply really helped me out a lot.
Thank you everyone for your replies, they were great and gave me a lot of well rounded persepective to start off with.
I made the jump into transitioning today, with a green smoothie for breakfast & snack, and some carrot-celery-grape-orange juice. Me and my sibs sat down with the grocery budget and basically spent almost the entire week's budget on fresh fruits and vegetables. Very exciting.
glad I could help!! I hope the journey treats you well!! do keep us posted!
isn't it cool to see all those beautiful colors in your fridge? instead of boxes and bags of pre-made food. I love it. it's almost empowering in a way!
I have a feeling you will thrive on whatever you do, Jakkrabbit, with your positive attitude.
I dont see how people can eat all that fat everyday and not get fat, Why would they leave out fruit, and eat nuts all day, wouldnt that lead to weight gain?I rather eat a high fruit diet..
I have had first hand experience experimenting with a high fat low fruit raw diet and I was MISERABLE! My skin looked horrible and I was tired and cranky all the time. I had crazy cravings and just gorged on nut butter. Although I dont believe good fat will make you fat, I really dont understand how raw fooders live like that.
Ahh I love this thread!
This is my first post on this site. I felt compelled to join in because of all the great input. I have been vegan, high raw for a few months now. I don't need to lose weight to begin with and I think it has remained pretty stable but would love to be a little trimmer. My skin definitely looks better but I went from a high veggie, some dairy, lots of fish diet to vegan. I am averaging about 2500 calories a day, approx 35% fat. I exercise 6 days a week and feel fine, much better than pre-vegan. I have a HUGE sweet tooth though and when I get around a freaking date I can't stop and eat up to 10 of them and then feel immense guilt afterwards. I thought I had no control around sweets but maybe my body is just craving the glucose. There was a thread about fearing fruit and in a way I do fear the calories and the sugar. What I find so interesting is that Jakkrabit has a stomach tube and can't taste the fruit so isn't enjoying it from that perspective but is preferring the way she feels on high fruit low fat. I prefer the taste of fruit over veggies but am worried that I'll gain weight or have massive candida b/c I am prone to yeast infections. From the posts I have read though that may not be the case. I did buy 80-10-10, its next on my reading list. This is a great discussion- it seems like there completely opposing raw movements and its confusing for newcomers. I guess the best way to know is to try each out, but I imagine I'll be in the middle somewhere.
eecho 'I can't wait for superfood2 and the59sound to respond'
heh... just had to comment on that... those were my thought exactly!
it is taking every fiber in my body to comment on this topic but I keep hitting the damn edit button..... makes me pound my head against a desk. Has anyone noticed to some that Dr.Doug seems like a cult leader? Now clearly I DONT believe that to be true but I dont like the fact that die hards treat his book like the bible. Thats great some of you all are 80/10/10 but I have come across the most rude people EVER that follow that lifestyle. if that lifestyle is best it would be nice to share your ideas in a graceful manner. Thats all... hopefully I dont hit the edit button again......
I think it's funny that everyone thinks that a high fruit low fat eater would be gung-ho about 80/10/10 Doug Graham, or anything else regarding a book. I eat high fruit low fat because it makes sense to ME. I ate that way before reading Doug's book, and I haven't picked up his book or referred to it since I first read it, nor tried his recipes.
Kitty- I have had first hand experience experimenting with a high fat low fruit raw diet and I was MISERABLE! My skin looked horrible and I was tired and cranky all the time. I had crazy cravings and just gorged on nut butter. Although I dont believe good fat will make you fat, I really dont understand how raw fooders live like that."
Theres one problem there and thats HIGH FAT LOW FRUIT. of course you'll have problems there.... doesnt mean 80/10/10 is best.... you just need to incorporate healthy fruits and veggies and not lead a FAT based diet! Thats simply being uneducated about a raw lifestyle. I am not calling you uneducated at all... no matter how long your raw... your always learning....
SarahA, I think your dates are fine, but try to lower your fat maybe to 20% of caloric intake and eat it 4-5 hours after your dates.
If someone wants "good fat," they should eat fruits and vegetables. Lots of good fat there.
I didn't think i was not being graceful..simply sharing my experience. I too did high fruit low fat long before I even knew who Doug Graham was..I bought his book to get more insight on everything scientifically but I follow what my body tells me as the best source, not any book.
Iliveyourdream..its my impression raw foodists get the majority of their calories from 1)fruit or 2)fat . So when fat overtook my diet, my results were disasterous. I have read interviews where supposed raw food experts say 1 or 2 pieces of fruit is max what you should eat in a a day. I would have to assume those people are most likely high fat low fruit to get sufficient calories. So...thats like what, 200 carb calories? And then you're going to somehow eat another 1200 cals in veggies and salad? Obviously not..fat would have to play a pretty big part in your diet. When your body is starved of carbohydrates, you're going to try fill your cravings and hunger with something substantial..like fat. Its all about following what your body tells you. Sure I could've grabbed a pepper or zucchini to munch on while trying to combat cravings and hunger but of course my bodys first reaction was to reach for FAT to try to be satisfied.
Oh and to Superfood..... I too meant it how eecho did..... I tend to know where a lot of people stand and know who is passionate about what.... and how they will react to what...... even though I may not share your dietary beliefs I still appreciate the fact that you have ANY to begin with! Thats admirable!
Kitty... I was simply saying that I dont understand why people have to have such highs and lows of things. Where is the balance????Middle ground????
There definitely is a healthy middle ground. Further, it is possible to eat a low fat raw vegan diet that includes juices, recipes, salt, spices, herbs, dark greens, and no overeating or unhealthy hyper-athleticism. It can be really good without the natural hygiene which has nothing to do with the percentage of fat.
I've been raw on and off for quite a while now; I originally read David Wolfe's 'Sunfood' book and found I thrived on his raw approach, which is a third sweet fruit, a third greens and a third fats.
Anyway, I've been curious about the 80-10-10 approach but whenever I try it, I feel cold and hungry. Although cutting down on nuts and seeds seems feasible, the idea of cutting down on avocado doesn't appeal to me. Whenever I don't eat avocado, I really miss it. It really is my favourite raw food.
So, my question is, how long has it taken people here to adapt to 80-10-10, especially if they don't live in a warm climate where tropical fruit is plentiful and cheap. I imagine if you have tropical fruit trees in your garden, it's easy. But going to the supermarket and carrying home the amount of bananas people say they eat seems a difficult feat to achieve.
Some people seem to thrive on 80-10-10. But, honestly, some do not. Cutting back on my fat some seems to work for me. But, cutting back as much as the 10% did not (and yes, I eat tons of fruit, still do by the way).
If you want to, keep giving it a try. Personally, if the way you where eating suited you before, and you have no ill effects- I would stay with it. IF you enjoy the avocado and are healthy- well, enjoy that avocado. I still think tons of fruit and greens are good for me. But, I've loosened up on the fat restriction some. That seems to work for me. You should do what works for you as well.
Salt and spices aren't going to help anyone obtain a degree of health. It might not be "as bad" before, but what kind of lackluster goal is "not bad"? Further, spices make your poop stink. :)
I think one avocado a day is fine. Enjoy it! Or one every other day.
never even read his book