Socal you said:
“Any raw high fat diet is really a fad diet, just read some of the many recipes posted here. They are just re-creations of bad foods to start with but with raw ingredients.”
I think people use the recipes to help them transition to eating a raw food diet…people who ate meat, dairy etc need to take it slow and easy for emotional, mental and physical reasons.
It is not a “fad” diet but part of a journey into who knows where? My goal is breatharian, it may take me 50 years to get there but I will not denegrade where I am at now by agreeing with you that it is a fad diet.
I do not mean to denegrade anything or anyone. It all depends on your goals, if it is to get to a more natural and healthy state then transitioning from a cooked diet to a raw diet is a positive move, even if you consume too much fats. Just be aware that many people believe that eating too much fat is healthy, it is definitely not healthy to consume food which we are not designed to eat. That is why cooked food is not good for us. The problem is many people eat more fats in their raw diet than they ate when they ate cooked. In transition this is no problem but for those who wish to maintain this diet for years they might need to adjust some of the recipes. In another thread someone mentioned that a low fat diet is not sustainable for the long term. The diet the human body is designed to eat is a low fat diet. There is a lot of information to prove this as all studies comparing a high fat diet to a low fat diet reveal the low fat diet avoids and even reverses disease. How could the diet that people were designed for be non-sustainable?
Good luck on becoming a breatharian. All I have ever read about them are that they are hoaxes. Maybe you will be the first non-hoax breatharian.
Back to the original topic of this thread, here is a good example of the Nutrition Facts for every recipe posted:
It’s not a raw vegan site but a low fat vegan site at least.
I’m on this website daily because I feel that it is a great source of inspiration. One of the best things about this site is the fact that most people are kind, and supportive to one another. I have never posted before and probably won’t in the near future unless another forum really motivates me to do so as much as this one has. I truly believe people who post information on this site do so with the intention to help other members to be healthy happy people, and that’s a wonderful thing!!! However I think some people need to learn to be more tactile and less aggressive in their approach. This site is made for sharing thoughts and opinions and being open to other peoples way of life. It is not about forcing your personal ideals upon others. I think it’s in best taste to reflect on what one has written in their post and consider how it might affect other peoples feelings before pressing that reply button.
I like fitday for keeping track of calories on a weekly basis but there is a really good nutrition site
> www.nutritiondata.com ...
it doesnt keep a daily tally so its bad if you like to see your weeks results however it does provide more detailed information on food, like what kind of minerals and vitamins are in your food,
There is also a section where you can create your own recipe and then the system will analyze it and tell you how balanced it is… the values are based on the usda standard but it still gives you valuable insight into what you are eating… Its also nice because it provides visual graphs and I find that it has a few more food listings then fitday….
perhaps a tag could be created for specifically low fat recipes
it could also be fun if a low fat challenge was set up to see who could create the most tasty low fat meals… just an idea :)
Sorry, I haven’t read the posts… except for the first one. But, isn’t it difficult to show nutrition fact when the nurtients (vitamins/miners) in food depend on the soil the food is grown in. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. This confuses me and I have seen it on http://www.whfoods.com/
Plus, it depends how long you germinate. Experience Life magazine had an article Eat it Raw! where chef Roxanne Klein (author of Raw) says “A roasted nut is 75 percent fat and 25 percent protein, [b]ut [when] you sprout it, that ratio reverses and becomes 25 percent fat and 75 percent protein.”
I am certain that the fat-protein ratio depends how long you germinate a nut for… a couple hours or 48 hours.
But, maybe estimates can be given… I just dont’ think we can get exact measures. But, if someone knows otherwise, do let me know. This is an interesting topic. On the otherhand, carb, protein, fat, calorie intake could be calculated much more easily.
I like the link you posted, germin8. Too bad they have this big turkey on the front page…I have never heard of the idea that germinating a seed or nut reverses the protein and fats percentages. I will look into that to see what chemical activity is happening to cause that. It would make sense according to natural hygiene as the nuts would fall from the trees and land on the wet ground then they would germinate and be available to consume without the hard work required to open the shells. Still making a meal out of nuts doesn’t seem like an easy task due to their small size and low water content.
I found a website that sells a lot of the kinds of things like the recipes listed here. Many of the products have the nutrition facts listed and not surprisingly most have fat contents in the 50% to 90% range. There is a smoothie that has zero fat, but everything else is mucho fat fat fat.
For the Northerners among us
A couple thoughts. First…
bq “It agrees with natural hygiene and is the best scientifically proven diet for the human species.”
...sounds a little too much like dogma for my taste. We all have different beliefs, although some may differ only subtly.
I am often exposed to the faction up here (alaska) who believes raw salmon from a stream is better than a bananna shipped from the tropics. Or, to put it differently, the body will respond better to your climate when you eat the foods produced in your own area.
Still, I also know that the soloist who took the trip to the South Pole on foot did it mainly on a diet of pure olive oil and suppliments. (I have yet to see an olive tree in pictures of the South Pole) It was the most concentrated calories he could find (by weight), and the mix managed to keep him very warm. He also pooped up a storm until his body got used to all that oil… But when you’re diving, skiing, or hiking in cool weather, it is a lesson learned. Fats keep the body warm. A handful of nuts, an avocado, or a salad with some extra oil might be better for our particular uses than a jigger of streight EVOO, Flax is particularly wonderful, whether it is a handful of nutlets or a tablespoon of oil. It has Omega 3’s, which make the blood ‘slippery’, helping it to circulate to the fine capillaries. That’s a BIG deal if you’re worried about frostbite. I have seen traditional eskimoes and Athapascans work their fish-traps bare-handed in icy streams, These folks aren’t related, so I don’t think it is all genetics.but they do both have lots of Omega 3’s in their diet.
Also,they were noted as being conspicuousely absent of heart disease, despite their high-fat diet. That is, until we introduced sugar and flour. Now they die pretty much the same as the rest of us.
I’m noot saying “eat salmon”. I am saying that fats might not be the underlying problem. I am also saying that low-fat diets are not found in Northern indiginous cultures. Or, indeed, in any indiginous tribal (pre-agricultural) culture that I am aware of. Even chimps and gorillas will sit under nut trees and crack open nuts for hours with a favorite rock left in that place for use year after year, leaving huge piles of shells.
I don’t believe chimps have a high rate of heart-disease, either… and I think he would laugh at you if you called his diet a fad.
One more thing.
If you don’t eat enough fat, you end up being what the Canadians call “rabbit starved” (from northern explorers who died of starvation despite feasting on rabbit, berries and grasses, which are fat-free fare) Fats are necessary to vision, skin and hair health, nerve function, the production of bile for digestion, and the injestion of the fat-soluble vitamins A,D,E and K. Without enough fat, you can’t properly digest protein, and your body starts to atrophy. No wonder you havn’t gained any weight, SocaL.
Attached to my last post is also the article where Roxanne talks about the “changing” protein/fat ratio… but, the link didn’t go to the right place. From the link, just select Search Experience Life and search for “Eat it Raw”. It should take you to the article.
Let me know what you find in your research, SocaL. I’m interested in knowing too.
We developed a two-part formula to determine how “good” a food was as a source of nutrients. The first (and most important) part of this formula looked at the nutrient density of each food. Nutrient density is a key idea in nutritional science. It compares the nutritional content of a food to its calorie content. If a food is very high in one or more nutrients, but very low in calories, it can be described as “nutrient dense” because it uses up very little of your day’s calories but is still “thick” with nutrients. If a food is low in nutrients but high in calories, it is the opposite of nutrient dense – we could describe it with the words “nutrient sparse” or “nutrient thin.” A “nutrient thin” food gives you very little in terms of nutrition, but uses up a lot of your day’s calories. Many foods fall somewhere in the middle and are considered “average” in terms of density. They give you a fair number of nutrients and use up a fair number calories; or they give you a lot of nutrients and use up a lot of calories. We didn’t think you would want to know about the “nutrient thin” or average foods, but only those foods that were nutrient dense and provided you with lots of nutrients while costing you few calories.
This is well said – it is from the link germin8 put up. High fat foods do not score high on this rating system. Low fat, high nutrient foods like lettuces, celery, and the like score high. The only thing that is lacking is the useability of these nutrients. If the food contains high nutrients but they are mostly excreted from the body then the value is not as high as a food with high nutrients and they are absorbed into the body and are useable.
BTW, germin8 I couldn’t find anything to confirm what Roxanne Klein said about nuts, it doesn’t sound like this is factual. It doesn’t make sense to me, how can soaking/sprouting convert fat to protein? This might occur after the nut starts to grow it’s roots – but by then most of us will have already consumed the nut. Here is a forum which addressed this:
You might need to cut and paste the link as this forum doesn’t seem to like certain characters in a link.
SoCal – I have a question for you – how are your teeth? When I did 100% raw with my kids, we ate mostly fruit. I don’t own a dehydrator, and honestly, did not want to deal with that much work and felt it a bit unnatural to dehydrate (suck the moisture out of) fresh foods…
Anyway, after several months of a high fruit diet with lost of greens and sparingly using nuts and avos, we all ended up with a TON of cavities. Also, we all got way too thin, scary thin for my littlest. This is when I went back to eating cooked food too, and now my daughters are doing fine.
Are you underweight? I know this term is different today due to what we see as being a “normal” weight… but for example, my 1 year old at the time (now 2) was the size of a much younger baby and had difficulties meeting milestones that she really should have met.
Just a few questions! I get what you’re saying, and lived like that out of convenience (I would buy 20 pounds of bananas at a time – THE convenience food!!) rather than following a regiment, and found it easy, but did not find in necessarily healthy.
SoCal a small amount of glucose is stored as glycogen in our liver, brain and muscle tissue for immediate use to be broken down into glucose if needed because it is not as dense/compact as stored fat. Fat is harder for the body to break down but glycogen is a supplementary energy source. Using all of your glycogen would leave you fatigued and tired to the point of temporary paralysis because your body would only be left to break down fats, which takes longer. Please understand that your body does not break down just glycogen first and then fats. It breaks down both fat and glycogen. The fat can also be broken down to glycerol which breaks down into glucose that is also used by the liver. The reason why our bodies break down both is because we only store a very small amount of glycogen in our systems. It is readily available while our bodies take extra time to break down the fats that we use. The reason why someone who hasn’t eaten for awhile (many days or couple weeks even) or maybe running forever becomes fatigued and tired to the point where they may not be able to move is because they used all of the reserved glycogen and there body is now stuck only breaking down fat which takes more time. If the body only used the glycogen first and waited until we depleted our reserves to use fat then we would experience intense highs and lows in energy if we wanted to lose weight. I doubt anyone would want to lose weight knowing they would have to pass out first.
Fat is not some evil thing in our bodies. Fat helps protect our vital organs, it helps us maintain our body temperature and some vitamins (A, E, K, and D) need fats in order to be digested and absorbed into the bodies. Our body is very complex and is very interesting. Again, I suggest an Anatomy and Physiology class. They go more in depth and explain more.
I was a personal trainer and used to body build and I use to know how much protein I needed to consume per hour in order to maximize my protein intake. The body will get rid of all excess protein that it does not need (layman’s term). The protein that is needed is broken down into amino acid, it is used differently than fat and it takes the body longer to digest. Protein burns energy because it is complex and that is another reason why the body slows down a tad when you consume a large amounts of protein which is in those dark leafy greens I know you don’t like too much such as kale. Protein is only used as energy if needed because it is suppose to be used to restore tissue. So, the information about protein being used first for energy compared to fat is false. Protein is also the most complex compared to fat and carbohydrates. There is also no way I am going into details with protein, there is too much info.
I do agree that changing ingredients from a cooked recipe to a raw recipe might not always be healthy. In my opinion it just depends on the recipe, some people here have made recipes that were originally cooked but converted it to a healthy delicious raw meal that did not require a dehydrator, tons of ingredients or even nuts, and oils. I do believe that if you like your diet then stick with it. I try my best not to get too technical so I hope everyone understands. It is hard to break down so much information in a simple, somewhat understandable manner.
Since I found out about the raw diet, I have been reading and trying what I thought it could work.
The first I tried was to eat as much fruit as I felt like, but after the third piece, I was fed up with sweet taste and started craving non-sweet foods (bread, rice).
Also, maybe because of my candida problems, fruit (especially high glycemic ones) made feel sooo bad physically and mentally.
I was told it was detox, but I was losing weight very quickly and getting many white hairs (which disappered when I went back to my “normal” vegetarian diet) so I decided it was just commom sense to stop that way of eating.
I then started to try some raw recipes like pizzas, lasagna, etc, and found out the hard way, (again) that nuts, seeds and avocados were hurting me as much as fruits. (I do great with olive oil, though)
I was left just with greens, which for me, are not satisfying, to say the least and grains, for which I need a dehydrator .
So I wonder how I can make this work, really.
No fruit, no fat, just greens and grains. In two weeks my dehydrator will arrive, and I will try to make some breads recipes I found in this site.
If that doesnt work, I will have to give up raw and prove all my doctors were right when they say a person like me couldnt do well with raw.
I really envy all of you who could find a way, with fruits, fats or whatever, to improve your health.
Sorry for the personal topic but I cannot talk about it with anybody else and am feeling really down.
Iris, Check out Conscious Eating by Gabriel Cousens,MD. He esplains how to go about finding your constitutional type through several questionaires and also how to determine your dosha (he combines western medicine with ayurveda). This has helped me determine the best way to start and then it is trial and error. He also has an excellent section on the addictive brain that really helps me understand my food addiction. Rainbow Live Food Cuisine has a 3 mo. part to help control candida and stabilize hypoglycemia. Very interesting stuff! These 2 books have given me the most useful physiological info regardless of being raw or not. If I hit the Lotto I’m definitely headed to Tree of Life LOL
You could also try doing some cleanses. Something like Ejuva or Collonix. Also, try doing a liver cleanse, or liver flush (search for those in the forums). The inability to properly digest fats is usually do to congestion in the liver. Plus, greens should make up the bulk of your diet. I try to follow the diet pyramid in The Thrive Diet. 45% fibrous vegetables, 20% fruit, 20% legumes/seeds/pseudograins, 10% nuts/avocado/oils, and 5% starchy vegetables. I also recommend reading Gabriel Cousens’ book. Don’t give up though. Eat as much raw as you can and don’t feel bad if you’re not 100% raw. You don’t need to prove anything to anyone, including your doctor.
Joesc thanks for that post, I leared alot from it ;)
Iris I hope you find what works for you. Good Luck. Raw_Chocolic I am glad you said greens should be the bulk of your diet. I love my greens. Zoe you are welcome. I am glad you learned some info. How is Tonka? Lucky is very energetic, he tends to be really needy at times, he is always under my feet, which trips me at times and when I sleep I have to kick him out of bed sometimes because he loves to sleep towards my head and on my legs and I can’t move. He is so sweet that I usually feel bad when I kick him out. I think he was held too much as a baby so now he loves to be held and he is extremely friendly to everyone.
woodchick: I once saw a short film about bonobos (or chimps?) teaching their young how to crack open nuts with rocks. It was funny because the babies had really poor coordination.
iris: Greens are the best. Have you tried hemp seeds? They have no enzyme inhibitors and so they’re easier to digest.
sproutmonkey: Even people with no tact are basically good. The people who contradict us and try to argue with us are not our enemies. They make us think, and they force us to find reasons to support our own positions. They
actually help us to make our own beliefs stronger. And sometimes they turn out to be correct.
But if someone is being truly disrespectful you can tell them that their tone does not impress you.
And you should keep posting. The only way to combat bad information is…..with more information.
Thank you very much for your answers. I feel much better now I could “talk” to somebody.
deborahann, I have “Conscious eating” and I found it very interesting, but as a vata and fast oxidizer a lot of fats are recommended and I just cannot take them at all, so Im lost.
Raw_Chocoholic, thank you for the suggestion. I will try a master cleanse and see how it goes, because, for sure, my body needs to clean somehow. I checked The trive diet and looks interesting, but again, fruits and fats…
Greens make me veeeery hungry, give me gas and make me feel weak, and the only food that goes down well is soft bread… I get the feeling that the fiber of greens is too strong for me, at least now.
LionMouse, I havent tried hemp seeds, but I will look for them. Thank you!
For answers to your questions on a high fruit and greens diet you can check out Doug Graham’s forum: vegsource.com/talk/raw or write him a question. I have no problems at all with my teeth, in fact I rarely need to even brush
them and I never use toothpaste. Maybe your old diet had something in it that is now being released by your body and it is causing the tooth problems. I had problems when I ate the dehydrated foods such as dehydrated fruit. It caused two teeth to crack due to the intense sugar and acid content. Fresh fruits and veggies, even sweet dates never bother me now. As for my weight, I checked on a chart:
and I fit in at the low end but still in normal range. I keep my weight stable without even thinking about it. I am not worried at all about weight. I see a world of obese and overweight people as everybody else does and it skews people’s viewpoints of what is healthy and what is not. Just because most people are overweight doesn’t make their problem normal or healthy. They are the ones in poor health.
Finally, yes of course fats are necessary to the body as is protein. The amount received from just 3-5% of calories from green foods like celery and lettuces will be enough to maintain perfect health in the long run, no need to eat any other overt fats unless you want to – but overeating fats can cause health problems. Toxins are stored in fat cells, carrying excess fat cells is equivalent to carrying toxins. Physical performance is maximized when oxygen efficiency is maximized and oxygen efficiency is maximized when the fat content is in the single digits for men and the low teens for women (% fat of body weight). This is verifiable with scientific equipment. Dr. Graham has done this experiment on professional and amateur athletes. I believe that having maximized athletic abilities is equated to maximized health. It’s called survival of the fittest.