This thread may be directed more at Ray and Kandance but everyone please post their comments:
I can’t remember when I joined gone raw whether or not there were any sets of “rules” regarding recipes.
Correct me if I am wrong but I think our recipes we post here should:
1. Be our original recipe.
2. If not our original recipe, it should be stated as such and credit should be given to the original creator or source that you modified the recipe or if you posted an exact copy of someone elses recipe, that should be stated too.
3. Try to keep our recipe names original so the recipe can be distinguished as unique and different from other recipes on the site. If you can’t think of a creative name for your recipe, you can always make it unique by putting your user name in front of it.
4. Distinguish what makes a recipe. I am sorry but a “recipe” that the only ingredients are one bananna and the instructions tell me to “peel and eat” – that is not a recipe. (that was just made up – I don’t think anyone has a recipe like that on here – but there are a few similar to that – not with banannas :) ).
Maybe it is just me but I know that many chefs (esp gourmet ones) see their recipe as “art” and to me if you take someone else’s recipe and try to pass it off as your own than it very much like plagiarism. Even though we don’t have (or need) copywrites to our original recipes on here – let’s show some decent human common courtesty and give credit where credit is due! Esp if you post a recipe on her that is the original recipe of a famous raw foodist that is published in their recipe book.
I know in the past when others post others recipe they gave due credit and I have done this myself. I post my original source if it is not my original recipe. But I am noticing an increase in recipes where I look at them and I KNOW I have seen the recipe before and I go and look elsewhere online and there it is! Or I go and look in my raw recipe book and there it is!
I hope I don’t sound like I am complaining – I just makes me sad to think that the honesty and graciousness that I love about Gone Raw might becoming compromised.
That being said – Please do not diss other people recipes in your post unless you have actually tried them! (I know it rarely happens but I have seen it!). If you have tried the recipe and it wasn’t to your liking than I think it is fine to post helpful criticism and things you changed about it but don’t jump the gun.
Ok, I said my two cents…I am sorry if this post sounds a bit ranty but this was honestly really bothering me lately. I hope it is OK I started a thread about it.
On this note, Ray or Kandance, maybe some day is it is possible we could change the recipe submission page to include a “Source” section to fill out. It could be optional. Some examples of sources would be: “me” (when it is your original recipe), “famous raw food chef” (for example, if it is Julianos recipe and you did or did not modify it – Juliano is still the “source” of the recipe), “someone else like a friend or relative” (for example, like “my sisters recipe”). or “website” (put up the website address where you got the original recipe from).
Does anyone else agree with me on this? I am not trying to upset anyone – I just want Gone Raw to mainatain integrity and honesty. :)
I feel ya! I just think as the number of members grow, the harder it will be to enforce “rules”. I don’t know how long I’ve been on this site but all I know is I’ve noticed a huge difference in the way people have gone about posting recipes, not including sources, the way people rate the recipes, etc… And yes I know exactly what you’re talking about with your “how to eat a banana” example! Anywhoo, you’re not alone, I share some of the same thoughts. I just don’t see any way that it would be able to be controled :( Time to brainstorm!
I think that unusual names make it hard to look up recipes for certain things, especially when there are no pictures. I would like for there to be a way to look for ingredients, for example strawberries, and have all recipes with strawberries come up.
I totally agree, queenfluff. I’ve noticed a lot of recipes recently that are taken pretty much verbatim from books I love, with no citing whatsoever. I find this very frustrating to encounter, and I’m sure the recipes’ original authors would as well. Perhaps there could be some sort of a flagging system, like on Craigslist? I’d hate to suggest that this type of thing would be necessary, but honestly, I’ve been pretty shocked by what I’ve seen.
I agree 123. Dido to all these notions, I think.
For example, I am a huge fan of Rhio’s recipes and especially wanted to share her Caesar Salad recipe, as it is absolutely divine. A quick email exchange and wallah – permission to post!
Thanks everyone for your comments so far! I am glad am not the only one seeing this. I felt a bit like a “tattle-tale” when I posted the thread. :)
I agree that it is and would be difficult to control. (I like your flagging idea Jenny- I go and flag the pet sales posts on there all the time – I used to work at a shelter so it makes me made when I see someone “giving” their pet away for free!)
123, the names don’t have to be “unusual” just more unique from other recipes of the same name. For example, if I create a new version of raw hummus and I came up with my version making Kandance’s Raw hummus. I wouldn’t call my recipe the exact same thing as Kandaces’s but something a bit different (with Hummus in the title of course) – Like I would call it “Queenfluff’s Salty Hummus” (just made that up now – but knowing me it would be salty! Ha ha!) and I would cite Kandance’s Hummus as being my main recipe source and that I used her recipe as a “base” and modified it.
I dont think there is anything wrong with using another recipe as a “base” as long as you cite it – I mean, we as rawies, are limited in our choices for recipe ingredients so of course there will be some “cross-breeds” of recipes, if you will. But if you came up with your recipe by making someone else first – please just say so. :) (I think this applies mostly to some of the more complicated and original recipes we have on here not necessary say your more basic smoothie recipes where the “base” might be something pretty common to put in a smoothie like a banana, ice and water.)
I would like there to be a way to search for ingredients too. I am sure Ray is working on it. :)
lyneymarie – I think fruit recipes are great and of course, if you come with a different way to do a fruit salad or something that counts as a recipe – or maybe to mix your chopped fruit with something else like a cashew cream to make a creamy fruit salad – that counts as a recipe too. But I think most people will agree that a recipe such as the “peel and eat” banana one I made up is NOT really a recipe.
I just noticed something else going through some recipes (I wasn’t purposedly looking for flaws honestly!). I am sure this is super rare but I see recipes being posted and the original poster hasn’t even made it yet! If it is a recipe that is someone else’s maybe this OK (as long as you cite the source because obviously the original recipe creator HAS made it and tried it) but why would you post an original recipe that you haven’t even made and tested yet and than say in your recipe post something like ” this is super yummy and creamy! It has a pudding like consistence.” (that isn’t a real one – I changed and paraphased).
Gosh, I feel like a complainer today. But it is getting out of control, I am sorry.
123, you can look up recipes with a specific ingrediant by typing in strawberries or whatever in the search box that is on the front page of the Recipe section. I agree on the citation issue. It’s nice to have recipes from other people’s books because obviously I can’t have every single one, but citation is just considerate. Also, although I know there is some dispute about whether certain ingredients are totally RAW (ie: nama shoyu, nutritional yeast, nuts, et cetera), I would like some clarification (mostly from Kandace and Ray, as the owners) on what ingrediants should be avoided for inclusion on the site. People decide for themselves what they will and will not put in their body, but many people here are in transition as well and some of these ingrediants are used by many raw foodists. I think definatly the recipes should be vegan, although some recipes are posted using honey, but I just am wondering what the general consensus is about the “rawness” of certain ingrediants used and should we make a note about it every time we post a recipe that includes nama shoyu, nutritional yeast, or whatever. Thoughts?
lyzneymarie – Honestly I wasn’t referring to your recipes at all! In fact, I hadn’t even looked at them until this very minute! They look great – fruit salad (mix of different fruits) are great! Your pictures are very beautiful! I was referring to recipes that have ONE fruit and it says something in the instructions like ” Pop in mouth and enjoy”.
Your recipes are not like that one banana recipe I made up. You have measurements for your differnet fruits and there is preparation in the instructions – cutting and arranging and sprinkling with coconut! That is a recipe! :)
Anyhow, not to get all anal, but here is the definition for recipe I got from the net pertaining to food:
a set of instructions for making something from various ingredients.
A set of directions with a list of ingredients for making or preparing something, especially food.
Yeah I forgot to mention that too, I’ve seen lots of recipes posted that people just posted for the heck of it but haven’t even made the dish! Yeah it’s probably good, but who knows… and then you have the people coming along who just like to hand out 5 stars becaue a recipe “sounds” good… I don’t know, that just frustrates me a bit.
Actually there is a thread pertaining to the exact issue you are talking about with the “what is really raw foods” like nutritional yeast, nama shoyu and things like that.
Actually, for the searching it doesn’t currently search the whole recipe post – just the title.
These are good points, I’m glad this discussion has come up.
We did a lot of thinking, and built the system the way that seemed right at the time. But it’s become obvious over the year or so that it’s started to get popular that it could stand a bit of improvement.
I think to address the issues regarding recipes copied, the smartest thing would be for us to come up with some text that would help clear this up. It should probably be right on the screen where the recipe is being entered. We can’t really prevent recipes being copied from elsewhere, but credit should at least go to where credit is due, in my opinion.
We might also consider other ways to address the problem. Maybe we need the ability to “flag” recipes for one reason or another (copyright reasons, non-raw reasons, non-vegan reasons). This would require some programming work, but if it’s the right thing to do, I’m willing to look into it.
The rating aspect is a bit tricker. We talked about this a lot at the outset, and decided on the way you see it now. We’d also talked about letting commenters check a “I made this” box. We also talked about tying the rating to the comment and the “I made this” box, but that seemed too complex and limiting. For one thing, you could then only (logically) comment on a recipe once, or you’d have to deal with people rating a recipe multiple times! It does get complicated, when you think through the logic…
Most of all, I’d like to keep Gone Raw as inclusive as possible. We don’t really have the time to patrol the recipes, nor do I necessarily want to! There’s nothing stopping folks from putting a recipe for “a banana” up and putting one ingredient in it! But that’s what makes Gone Raw different – it’s a rare site that lets you put up your own recipes in the way that we do. So let’s keep talking about how we could make it better… while also realizing that we’re never gonna make it perfect.
rawrach, the word strawberries only comes up if it’s in the title. It doesn’t come up if the author calls it “rawberries”, for example.
I totally agree with you queenfluff.
I have seen recipes that are from raw books I have… even though they have slight modifications. But sometimes, the original recipe has an ingredient I don’t have/want which can be replaced by another ingredient, just not in the same proportion… so, if someone figure out what proportion that is, then it would be nice to know about it. (some proportions aren’t quite right, but what can you do, make a note and fix it) And yes, give credit where it is due!
(That said, it would be nice if I had my own recipe section with “tweaked” recipes… that only I could see… that way, I know how to make it the way I like it, next time… plus, it should be searchable by me only. but, that idea could get messy… scrap it.)
And, I actually like lynzeymarie’s recipe pictures… because a big part of what makes food appetizing is its presentation. If it looks pretty, we will want such foods. And, people going raw may not want a bowl of fruit… but when it looks like lynzeymarie’s pictures, they may think twice. Such a simple recipe, yet the pictures give us ideas on how to present a raw dish that will whet our appetite.
123, that’s a tricky one… I call noodles “zoodles” in my recipe since they are made from zucchini.
Yeah, I agree too. Also though, whenever I search for a recipe (like say I type in carrot pulp) I get a recipe that has carrot pulp in the title and/ or description. However, if carrot pulp is one of the ingredients int he recipe, then it does not come up in a search. The search would be much more efficient, if it searched ingredients too. Or maybe people could choose which they want it to search, title, description or ingredients?
I just wanted to bump this topic. Just today I’ve seen several recipes posted with introductions, instructions, and pictures taken verbatim from another chef, sometimes with no source cited. It’s bad enough when the recipes are copied without citing a source, but when the pictures and the introduction itself (written in first person!) are pasted in as if they are the poster’s own, I just find it unbelievably frustrating. I don’t want to be the recipe police, going through each recipe leaving comments to this effect, but I think this is fairly outrageous. This type of situation also makes me wonder whether some raw chefs will think twice before posting their recipes online, which would be sad indeed. I am a grateful subscriber to the original chef’s recipe newsletter, and it only seems right that we should repay the generosity of these chefs with respectful treatment of their work.
Im glad someone else felt like this – I thought maybe it was only me. I commented last year that a recipe that was posted was virtually word for word taken from a book I had. Since then the poster has helpfully added where the recipe came from.
I agree with the points that have been made. Some recipes lately have been more obvious than recipes (along the lines of peel banana and eat!!) and I also noticed that some people hadnt even tried there recipes.
I dont mind recipes that say they dont know the exact quantities – as I only make raw food for myself I tend to work in the same way, I add in what I have until it looks enough. These are still recipes even without the exact quantities.
I do think it is so great though that so many people want to share their ideas and hope we can find someway of ensuring that every one gets credit for their recipes. Long may all the great ideas continue.
Hi all, I am agreeing with everything here as well, it is unfortunate that this stuff happens, but that is one draw back to opeining up to an entire community of individuals, not everyone has the same integrity levels. Perhaps, (just a suggestion) we need a few volunteers for moderators in multiple areas, not necessarily “police” lol like jenny says, to be caretakers for not only our newbies (Our wonderful Zoe!!!) but for other parts of the site so Candice and Ray don’t have to be as overly parental. I know I have gently posted on people’s recipes when I felt they were plagerizing. So we could get a few volunteers. Anyone agree?
Have to agree also with all said…
If somebody does see a recipe that is posted, without permission from the author, couldn’t we alert Ray or Kandace about it (with specifics as far as where it had been copied from) and it then could be removed? Copyright laws are pretty sticky, and not worth risking the entire site being in jeopardy for 1 recipe. I do like the idea of posting a line at the top of each recipe form stating the rules.
123 Really agree that it’s hard to know what is in a recipe when the Name of it is something like, “Super Crunchy Munchy” or just “Green Smoothie” but specific details like “Strawberry Lime Green Smoothie”, even if there were 5 other Strawberry Lime Green Smoothies listed, would at least help me to see whether I’d even want to look at the recipe or not.
Also like it best when people list ingredients as ingredients with measurements (or even estimated ingredients) and not as one long paragraph without ingredients…I know that Ray addressed that awhile ago.
All these ideas you have are going to help to mold this site well as it grows bigger and bigger! :)
i’m glad i saw this! i recently posted a recipe w/pictures i took of some raw cacao bars. the recipe was from Naked Chocolate and the pics were my own after i had made it. i took the recipe down. and have also sent an email to Shazzie via myspace mail asking her PERMISSION to repost her recipe w/my own pics. she has yet to write back.
I like the “source” idea the original poster had. They do that on yahoo answers. When you answer a question they have a source box where you can optionally list your sources. I think it keeps people honest plus people can do some research of their own on the source.