some free 80/10/10 info....i'm leaving
some free 80/10/10 info....i'm leaving
i’m off….i’m spending a lot of time talking about 811 at the moment….i need to step back for a while and just do it
there seems to be some interest here for this lifestyle, but a lot of resistance…that’s ok…everyone needs to find their OWN groove in their OWN time
and though i seem to be the resident 811 guy at the moment, my transition to this lifestyle is in it’s infancy…..i’m not the right guy to explain this stuff…better to go to the source of the info, or at least those with more experience
it is with this in mind that i thought i’d post some links to info on the 80/10/10 diet (hate that word…wish he’d chosen ‘life’ or ‘lifestyle…or ANYTHING else)
if you have more than the slightest interest, then buying the book is the way to go…..even if you have no intention of following the lifestyle, the information and it’s presentation may inform many of your choices in your chosen ‘take’ on the raw lifestyle
this is a link to download a pdf of an interview that doug gave to kevin gianni during last years raw summit
here is a link to a video of a talk he gave at the organic athlete conference in 2005
here is a link to his website
here’s a link to the vegsource forum for 811 raw vegans
and some links to 811 rv blogs
here are links to a great 811 guy, harley a.k.a durianrider…a great raw athlete who pulls no punces when talking about 811
here is a link to a raw bodybuilder, charlie abel….811 style
hope everyone finds this info interesting (even the doubters)
i will continue to lurk here from time to time and wish you all the best of everything
peace love and good happiness stuff
and may the (raw) force be with you
fare thee well
I’m starting this…. holy cow.
wow….great to hear….
i’ve decided only to post in response to those who have a genuine interest in 811…. i don’t want to criticise others choices, it only makes me the bad guy…..
dr.d is very mellow in his approach…and just says that it’s all about the results you want….he doesn’t preach….he has just spent 30 years making the transition through all of the stages of dietary change and has often said to learn by HIS mistakes
reading the book is great….there are so many moments where the information just ‘clicks’....no suspension of disbelief…just reasoned and scientific argument
if you went raw for health reasons, then why stop at the 1st stage….keep the original motivation that it is about eating to support health, not for social or entertainment reasons….going raw and eating gourmet will always feel healthier at first because it’s worlds better than where we have come from SAD…but it make sense that after a while the body becomes sensitive to these heavier, badly combined foods…..80/10/10 picks up where this leaves off and teaches us how are bodies journey towards health and our true physiological requirements become more apparent….
some raw foodists are quite happy to accept that heating food above a certain temp. destroys enzymes, vitamins etc…this is scientific fact…then the questioning stops….people stop enquiring and can become quite defensive of their dietary stance….i think we need to keep questioning….
the low-fat thing isn’t something that dr.d claims as his own…he points out that it is the one common factor that nutritionist, health scientists, sports nutritionists agree on ….keeping fat at 10% or lower….any higher and it starts to have an incremental negative impact on our health, whether these fats are ‘good’ or ‘bad’ fats…some long term 811’ers have also experienced that after time they have lowered there fat intake under 10 and have found even better health benefits…..10 is the maximum
we should never stop learning and questioning….and if we find cause to question, after a fair trial, the 80/10/10 lifestyle, then good…..as long as we don’t use this to justify reverting to something worse, then we must adapt and improve
another reason that people often cite for going raw is simplicity and ‘getting back to nature’....in my quest so far, i have found nothing as simple or closer to human nature than what this book suggests….but it involves more sacrifices ( or what initially seem like sacrifices)....it also is so simple and natural that it negates ALL ‘raw’ industry….the income of those who make a living from selling supplements, superfoods, pills , powders, gourmet recipe books, or ‘uncook’ courses would be threatened if everyone gravitated to this approach….easy to understand why there is such controversy…..
it is quite interesting to note that doug graham was not invited to this years raw spirit festival…..this is a big 3 day event held in america http://www.rawspirit.com/ ........it is rumored (from close to the source) that the organizers were offered money NOT to invite him….whether you believe it or not, it’s interesting to think why they wouldn’t…..the 1st page of the site’s sponsorship companies is a start….only through a sustained email effort by 811’ers did he eventually get invited to speak…..like the guy in the blog above said (
http://vanboughner.com/) he went raw after attending the raw spirit festival, but wished that doug had been there to speak so that he hadn’t wasted so much time getting to what he felt was the ultimate in raw
the vegsource forum http://www.vegsource.com/talk/raw/ is full of people who spent time on the SRD (standard raw diet) but who , like MOTH, naturally gravitated towards this way of eating….as their bodies become cleaner and more refined they start to need something different as dougs did all of those years ago….luckily this information is there for those who never stopped seeking
as for me….i’m just at the beginning….i’ve fallen off the wagon again, but am dusting myself off ready to get back on…..my leap to raw is straight to 811….i have a lifetime of eating issues and self-esteem issues and know the raw life is for me…...i know that i could better transition to raw if i follow the traditional route, but i can’t afford to buy a dehydrator knowing that i plan to never use it after my transition…...
i have to keep moving forward
i wish you both and myself the best of luck with this new venture
Yay yay yay…I’m so glad we got into a bit of a ‘spat’ or ‘debate’ earlier on. I was able to think about your side of things, and WHAMMO, 811rv…Boom. I found it. This is super exciting. :)
i definately think it was more ‘debate’ than ‘spat’.... 8-)
good luck….let us know how you get on….
el-bo – this post is full of information, thanks so much for posting it! I liked the article I’m so skinny
I can learn a lot from 80-10-10 lifestyle, and apply many parts of it to my life… even if i don’t rigorously follow it. I plan to continue to study it and other ways of eating raw. I hope that plenty of raw fooders take an interest in learning about 80-10-10. We can all benefit from this knowledge, even if we don’t apply the information in the same way.
i am a little surprised to find out el-bo, that you have been advocating a diet that you don’t even follow yet. anyone educated can present good arguments for following their diet. i have personally read and tried out many raw “diets” (agreed, bad word) since last year, and although 8/1/1 works well for some (including graham obviously) diets are not one size fits all. and intellectual arguments are no replacement for first hand experience.
personally i have NEVER eaten the amount of fat that most raw foodists do in their transition phases, but even if i had, i now know that as you get cleaner and healthier you need LESS calories to thrive. i am living on at least 1/16 of what i used to eat and i feel 300% better. storm of the garden diet is a body builder who thrives on nothing but orange juice!
in my experience, when your cells are healthier, tighter, and cleaner, they need less “fuel” to do the same work they used to. a car with less passengers and luggage is more fuel efficient.
there are so many ways of doing this and i encourage people to find their own way and do A LOT of research. your body is going to change daily.
i think it’s better to be AWARE of how certain foods, certain quantities, and combinations affect you, rather than to structure yourself around just ONE doctrine of eating.
anyway, that’s my opinion.
i as with others, sometimes fall off….it’s natural…..
i’ve never made it a secret that i failed once in february and have been recently trying to re-start…...
i don’t have to have been present when t.colin campbell * did all his research/experiments to fully understand what he writes and once understood to communicate to others what i’ve learnt….he has done the research so we don’t have to…in the same way…dr goug graham has spent 30 years of the ‘finding your own way’ that you are talking about…the difference is he has coached hundreds of people both in health and fitness and all his evidence bears out the same results
the problem here is that there is a scientifically proven reason for everything that is stated in favour of the raw-fat vegan lifestyle….
where you differ is in your belief that we don’t eat for our species, that each of us has specific different dietary needs…..ever seen a cow that didn’t eat grass…”ooooh no, sorry my vet tells me that i’m blood type x, so i don’t do grass….i’m better off with spaghetti”......or picture 5 monkey’s in a row all eating different meals due to various different reasons
the truth is that we humans are animals….and as with all other animals, mother nature has provided what we need to eat….and that’s it…..
that fact that you feel 300% better than you used to may have more to do with stopping what you used to do…people feel better at every stage of changing health…from meat to vegetarian to vegan to raw vegan to low-fat, high calorie raw vegan…...
but the body’s physiological needs are specific…..and regardless of how efficient your body is running, it needs fuel…..your car may now have a few more miles to the gallon than before but a half full 50 mile tank is not gonna get you 80 miles down the road
i’m not gonna go further down this road because as i’ve already said in many of my posts that due to my lack of experience it is better that you post on the 811 forum and the reason i refer to others who have been living this way for a long time…it is the reason for me starting this thread (to point to others with said experience)
though you state that you have read a lot and that you encourage people to do their own research, i sense that you haven’t read the book and that you will not…
i specifically started this thread to provide those who are interested with some links to info…...i also stated further down the thread that i have stopped posting my 811 thoughts in threads where people have no interest….this thread is just for the taking…..i don’t understand why you would use this a chance to express a contrary opinion….if the thread was entitled ‘for those interested in learning spanish’ , it would perhaps be inapropriate for you to post that in your experience it is better to learn french’
i realise that the above sounds hostile, but believe me i don’t mean it to…their are no ‘smileys’ here for me to indicate the tone and manner that i’m trying to express
anyway….i’ve never really found the need to quote myself , but here goes
from my first post
“even if you have no intention of following the lifestyle, the information and it’s presentation may inform many of your choices in your chosen ‘take’ on the raw lifestyle”
i said this much in the spirit of what you are saying…do the research….take the bits that make sense, discard the rest….i’m all for discovering in my own time, but where my health is concerned i’m glad there is info like this available…reading the perspectives offered on calories, fat,candida, and diabetes amongst others is especially enlightening
hope this helps
peace to you and yours
- this is just for examples sake…i’ve not read it…but it’s next on my list
el-bo: There are other authors, nutritionists, scientists, etc. who also have helped/coached countless other people back to health. Dr. Gabriel Cousens has scientifically-based eating plans that are not the same thing as Dr. Doug Graham’s scientifically-based eating plan, and both have been helpful & effective in helping people beat diabetes and other health challenges. Good luck to you! :)
Pianissima – thanks for all your informative posts about cleansing & cellular health. 1/16 – wow!!! That would definitely help my food budget :D
yes, that’s right…they both have…....
but from the little i have seen of his work dr cousens advocates the use of many things (including grains and certain sea vegetables …and sea salt (ugh) noted for their contra-indications to health….
he might have a lot to say if he just stopped ‘banging on’ about e3 live
anyways….you must believe what you believe….i believe that all we need is here for us in a ready-to-eat form, at ‘picking’ level or having already dropped nicely ripe from a tree
the cynic in me looks at his site and sees many ‘products’ and that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth…..
all i did was read a book, that after many books, made the most sense…maybe you’ll read it one day, maybe you wont…maybe you’ll agree, maybe you wont
and to answer your (pianissima) point about thriving on nothing but orange juice….i have heard that storm ‘mostly’ uses orange juice….and indeed they have made popular (through their site) the 2 week orange juice cleanse
if you enter orange huice, raw into nutridiary you will see that it is made from 90% carbs, 6% protein and 4% fat…no wonder he thrives…it is the ultimate 811 rv meal (as is just about every other fruit you care to enter, except durian etc)
80/10/10 is the min/max level
so …no less than 80% calories from carbs and no more than 10% calories from either fat or protein
when you eat like this and cut out overt fats (nuts,seeds and avocados) then to use your words you “thrive”...this has been the experience of many who have lived like this for a while
i love mono-mealing on orange juice…...for a meal i think nohing of drinking a litre of juice or more…...so that’s upwards of 470 calories…perfect
I enjoy conversations with you – you don’t have to leave the site just because people have different approaches & opinions… stay & play?
i am gonna stay
i like the banter too…...and good that it’s striking some kind of chord with you…otherwise you wouldn’t be able to wait to see the back of me
but as i stated before, i’m gonna restrict my posting to threads that have an 80/10/10 theme….i’m not gonna push what i believe onto others that don’t wanna hear/read it (regardless of how relevant i think it may be)...
it’s a very hot topic and involves taking a controversial stance….i don’t wanna spend my time here being the ‘bad’ guy
One thing, though, Doug Graham is looking kind of old. Not something you would expect from someone ‘thriving’ so much. Curios…
Hi el-bo … I have personally been very happy to see so much being posted lately re: 811rv. That is personally what we follow, albeit somewhat losely in that somedays we will have a bit higher fat (if we go out to dinner at a raw restaurant or something). I find it works for me, if I can just get the volume up enough in my meals – slightly challenging at times. Anyway, just wanted to say I’m happy to see the posts, in a forum you will always have differing opinions and that is a great thing. There is something to be learned from all perspectives.
i also think he looks quite old, but i think he’s in his late 50’s….
i also think his hair makes him look older…..the way he’s holding on to his hair as it’s leaving in that style is something i equate with old men…i’m sure if he shaved his head he’d look much younger
if you look at the photo 1/2 way down this page
he is in a far better physical state than those he’s pictured with
unlike some david wolfe pics from last years raw spirit festival where he seems to have been enjoying his raw treats a little too much…i’m only joking….i’m one to talk
if i can look 1/2 as alive and fit as dr.d does at his age i will be very happy
my dad, and most other guys i know of his age look a world apart
what was your motivation towards 80/10/10 and where did you get you info from ????
Sad :( There are so many other forums to play on…
now i don’t understand what you mean, angie….
i’m gonna stay with this thread for 80/10/10 goodness, well except for the next few days….i have planned a 3-day water fast….i have a lot of time on my hands at the moment and it feels right…..i have a ton of oranges waiting for me on the other side of the fast…i’ll try to mono-meal them for a while….keep things simple…
so, if this thread still lives, i’ll see y’all on sunday
Oh, no worries; I just meant you could also comment on other topics in addition to 80/10/10 forums :) Enjoy your fast & the oranges – I’ve been eating a lot of oranges lately; yum!!!!!
I can’t remember exactly what made the 80/10/10 diet cross my periphery back in January. I know I found Dr. Graham’s website and ordered “80/10/10” and “On Nutrition and Athletic Performance” together to read them. After that let’s just say “the rest was history”. I am planning on going to California in August to take his MAP class and Natural Hygiene Raw Nutritional Science Certification Course.
el-bo, thank you for these excellent posts. I love your analogies with the cows and
The MP3 that goes along with the transcript you linked to was a free download from the Raw Summit last summer. Here it is:
I read the 80/10/10 Diet book 12 months ago. It changed my life overnight and I’ve been following the program ever since. I’d been on the SAD > vegan > gourmet raw transition for about 3 years prior, during which time I’d read all the books I could find by Young, Cousens, Wigmore, Wolfe and others. Eloquent and inspiring as they were, I always felt that I had to take some element of the science “on faith”, and duly followed the various programs like a religion, along with the daily rituals of supplements.
80/10/10 was completely different – I found the concepts all to be self-evident. Adopting 811 was more of an un-learning process for me. Just as a cow doesn’t need to be told it should eat grass, I realised I didn’t need to be told how to eat either. I don’t want to give the impression that it’s easy to un-learn eating habits – I experienced food cravings during the first months as I abstained from “comfort food”. But during that time I learnt a lot about how I’d used food in the past for purposes other than nutrition. My awareness fuelled my unlearning progress.
Some people transition faster than others – who doesn’t have emotional attachments to certain foods? There’s no “comfort food” here, and it takes a certain bravery to give it a try. I know that I came across 80/10/10 at just the right time for me, or about 3 years too late – I can’t decide.
I second your advice to check out the vegsource forum – it’s a great place to seek advice and mingle with 811 beginners and veterans. The “coming soon” FoodnSport website redesign will also be well worth checking out.
Good luck to you all,
firstly, yes, my research INCLUDES doug graham. i have listened to that interview as well with gianni.
also, agreeing with angie. we’re all here to learn. i am personally very wary of people who profess to know “the truth.”
AND, i am in no way suggesting that people have different needs on a base level. HOWEVER, we have all come off of different diets and have harmed our organisms to varying degrees as a result. the amount of transition time and the ideal transition diet is going to vary case by case, and will depend on the environment that we are living in as well (i.e. how much it adds to or detracts from our toxemia). to go from hamburgers to a mostly fruitarian diet in one day is going to take its toll on your body.
again, my opinion (from MY experience) only. i was of the impression that all thoughts were valid on goneraw.
“On Nutrition and Athletic Performance” is a wonderful book, as is “Grain Damage”.
Dr Graham is an excellent speaker – I am sure you will love his classes. Maybe I’ll see you in Fort Bragg – I’ll be helping out at the classes and at the Expo.
Many 811ers and 811 curious have never given plain old Raw a real try. Many have never been 100% raw long enough to experience the natural gravitation to a simpler diet that seems to happen for everyone. Why impose someone else’s dogma on yourself, when you’ve never even followed through on the first thing that really resonated, Raw Food.
Many have never been 100% raw at all. This is because of hidden cooked food in their diet. So many who talk of being 100% consume loads of cooked items. They do this either because they don’t know these items are cooked or because certain items are just classed as Raw even though most know they are not. Agave Syrup, Nori, Cacao, Nutrition Yeast, Most Oils, Maple Syrup, Most Nuts, Miso, Nama Shoyu, Bragg’s, Olives, Oats, Tahini, Wild Rice, the list goes on and on.
Dr. Graham (BTW, not a medical doctor) was 100% raw for years before 811. He had a slow and natural transition to his number system. I have a hard time believing in any diet that requires a website to calculate my food % for me. Did Adam and Eve have a broadband connection in the Garden of Eden? Are those programing NutriDiary raw? Are the numbers they use based on raw or cooked versions of the items? Even if it says an item is raw, do they really know. If Raw vegans get fooled by items that are actually cooked then they must be also.
Zoe and I committed to 100% and didn’t get there for over 9 months because we kept finding out that some item we were using wasn’t raw. One by one we got rid of all these and soon afterward the magic started to happen. OK, 99% was magical, but 100%, WOW! We both became completely intuitive and our cravings for fruit and greens grew and grew. It’s so nice to eat healthy because you really want to and you know your body won’t accept anything less. If we had started out on someone else’s plan we may have never experienced this glorious feeling.
I am firstly a believer in common sense, Raw Food as nature intended, that makes sense. Secondly I believe in personal experience, mine has been amazing on just plain old Raw with no other rules. Thirdly comes science and research, on this front I’m afraid i’d have to say that the Jury is still out on 811. Clearly there are many who have had bad experiences on 811. And it does seem that the people who love it most are those who are very, very physically active.
Also you may not be aware of this, but when 811 first broke big 2 years ago, there was a good bit of controversial things that went on. Posts with less than positive remarks were being deleted from Doug’s and other 811 forums. There was a while there, when all the good raw forums, including GoneRaw had a continual argument thread about 811. This really turned me off to 811.
Lastly, what’s up with eating all those bananas. The bananas we have today are hardly natural and I don’t feel nice after only 2. I can’t imagine eating 10 to 30 a day as it seems many 811ers do.
yes pianissima, all thoughts are valid here…but i only posted this thread so that those that were ‘interested’ to be able to access more information
i just didn’t understand why you felt the need to comment…it’s clear that you have certain issues with the style of raw, or at least how one should transition to this lifestyle, but in the spirit of letting everyone find out from there own experience i posted the links so that folk could do just that
for what it’s worth i disagree with you on the need for ANY kind of transition to this diet…it’s not as though i’m advocating going from hamburgers to a 40 day water fast…that may be considered too harsh a change
as we discussed in another post…the body detoxes, not food….if you are eating sufficient food your body shouldn’t have any harsher a detox than any change from cooked to raw….the body stops detoxing the moment you eat…so to halt detoxing in it’s steps you just need to eat….many folk in the early stages have many frequent meals of less calories for this reason and to deal with ‘getting the calories in’
if you believe as many people do that high fat is detrimental to health then there can be no grounding for continuing this practice while in persuit of a healthy lifestyle…..i believe (just my opinion) that the only reason to include these heavier, fattier foods is for psychological, not physiological reasons…..it is very hard mentally to adjust to these changes when suddenly ‘deprived’ of all of our ‘comfort’ foods…
as far as people who profess to know the truth….i’ve never said it of myself, and i’m not aware of doug saying it either
i have also said here before, that at this point this makes the most sense to me…..i’m open-minded enough to think that i may be wrong, and that if after a fair trial i find it doesn’t work, i’ll seek to modify it
anyways…that radio interview is just the tip of the iceberg…i still don’t know whether you’ve read the book….
yes chris, but many 811’ers HAVE given ‘just’ raw a try….many have been raw long enough to see themselves gravitate to a point where they eat more simply….that’s the point….what do you do when you reach the point where (as many in this site are discovering), you can no longer ‘stomach’ nuts ?......what do you do when you become sensitive enough to notice how eating an avocado in the middle of the day makes you feel sluggish ??? what do you do when you realise that giving these foods up cuts your daily ‘fuel’ intake (not food intake) in half
i feel lucky that doug took 30 years to slowly develop this way of eating….i’ve already had 35 years of bad….his 30 years experience allows for me to not waste my time…it is the same with learning from anyone who has more experience than ourselves…dogma is a strong word and if you take the time to aquaint yourself with his books you will realise his approach is far from dogmatic…..this aint no ‘nature’s first law’
and you are right…adam and eve didn’t need to calculate calories…that’s because they didn’t exist , they are fictional characters (ooooh the blasphemy)...just a joke…no offence intended….anyways let’s assume they did exist…the garden of eden would have been populated by lush vegetation…nothing else….just good fruit and veg….adam and eve would also have been used to consuming higher volumes of fruit as there stomachs had not lost their elasticity from consuming dehydrated, dense, calorie-rich foods…...they would never have lost touch with the signals in their bodies and their instincts (much as with all other wild animals) would eat what they needed in the quantities they needed, when they needed it….
we , as humans on the other hand, have lost touch with all of the above….nutridiary is only important in the early stages as we learn just what the required amounts of calories look like (in food) per day…this of course relies on the premise that you agree with the principals of ‘calories for fuel’.....some people don’t…..good for them…..
it is important to note that you and your wife are naturally gravitating towards the simple….there must be a reason for this….what happens if you follow that thinking to it’s logical (some believe) conclusion
yes there is controversy surrounding 811…there’s controversy surrounding the SRD (standard raw diet), vegan, standard vegetarian diet and thankfully now the standard american diet is surrounded by controversy….but let that not stop us trying first hand and drawing our own conclusions
if as you say, you are a believer in common sense, then read the book….your common sense will allow you to decide what you believe is true and worth pursuing and allow you to discard the rest
the jury is still out, but don’t wait for the jury…be your own judge and juror…the world is still not convinced about the raw food movement in general…only slowly now that celebrities have started putting there names to endorse it…..but you already jumped in without the need for the worlds nutritionists to give you the green light…..what stops you continuing on with the learning….yes others have failed…who knows why ?? you can lay the blame at the diet, but there could be many reasons why…...people also fail on the SRD….why no controversy ??? why aren’t we all burning our raw books and throwing our dehydrators out of the window….maybe because those that succeed know it makes sense and those that fail…well there are countless reasons why thay may fail….but we still all believe in raw…..
it’s the same with 811…there are a lot of people succeeding…enough that we can safely assume that a lot of problems are down to ‘user-error’....many people read the book and try to shape it towards what they already know…..there are countless posts (on vegsource) from people who read, but don’t ‘get it’.....why would we discredit something working for so many
in terms of vegsource removing posts…yes it is true…there have been sustained attacks by a few (always changing names), who are not content with just discrediting 811, but are about promoting a diet they believe to be mans natural diet…one that includes the consumption of raw meat…..it is not unreasonable for a vegan forum to wish to exclude those who consistently in a very ‘spam’ like way seek to promote meat eating….i’m sure the same would be true here…it’s different there…it’s not a standard forum set-up…..you don’t need to register, so it allows for a lot more attacks from anyone without trace…change your name , use a different computer and you can’t be traced as you seek to cause disharmony amongst a raw community…..
it’s not all a bed of roses…there’s no idolising dr.d….the forum is full of people having problems and as with here, those who have more experience step in to make things clearer….
being so different, and working against the grain will always make you stand out…..unfortunately this way of eating is open to scrutiny and any hint of controversy, people turn on the ‘blinkers’...it’s a way of life that attracts such controversy amongst the raw food movement, because if all the raw foodists adopted this approach it would spell the end of a lot of raw ‘industry’
811 works for the physically active, but it creates in those who aren’t , the drive , will and energy to increase their activity…..many 811’rs were previous raw couch potatoes, who suddenly realised what happens when you eat the right fuel in the right quantities and in the right ratio….the diet feeds the exercise which in turn needs the diet
one last thing….you may not feel nice after 2 bananas….i and many others feel great on 6 or 7….you just gotta let them ripen properly and eat the way before and a long time after any fat you may wish to consume
go on chris, read the book…you really have nothing to lose….i won’t tell anyone…promise
anyways…i’m so tired of hearing myself speak….god knows how you must feel….nah, don’t tell me…
it’s now 2:52 here and i’m 2.52 hours into day 1 of my water fast…wish me luck, once you’ve stopped cursing me…i should be back in 3 days
peace , love and good happiness stuff
go on, try 100% for at least 3 months, I won’t tell anyone!
I think you missed my point entirely and you have also reminded me of why I don’t like to discuss 811 with 811ers. Do a search on the forum and you will find plenty of previous threads on 811. many of these I contributed to.
I really have looked for 811ers who have been 100% and have not had much luck in finding them. You are not one. I’ve never had dialogue with one yet on any of these many threads I have mentioned. So who are these 811ers formerly truly 100% (all items investigated) people you mention. Have you actually asked any of them how long they were without all the common non-raw ‘Dead Food List’ items? I have.
Why tell people who are still eating 20% cooked food that they feel bad because of an Avocado. That is absolute crap! I go days without Avocados, even weeks, but when my body wants them I can eat 3 or more in a day with no ill effects.
BTW, You have no idea wether or not I have read the book. I didn’t say.
I often read these threads and am amazed at how quickly an eating program becomes a dogma. It is like religion – where people are compelled to say that their god has to be faster and shinier than all the other gods. The answer doesn’t have to be the same for everyone and, that being true, it doesn’t make any one approach more right than another since they are both much improved from the starting point, which was probably SAD. We all seem to be trying to get to the same place.
I am happy that those who are 100% raw and those who are 811ers have found something that works for them. I can appreciate recommending something you believe is helpful to someone else because you want that person to experience something you personally find life enhancing. But who is to say the one person’s experience isn’t as legitimate as someone else’s experience. We all just have to keep going in the direction of improvement and we evolve along the way. As long as what you are doing isn’t hurting someone else, there is certainly room for everyone’s ideas and choices.
Meditating: I echo your sentiment. I cringe when I read things like, “those who fail” because it sets up too much pressure. I think food is something that benefits from thought and care—such is the reason why I am here—but I think it turns into a pissing contest with the ultimate goal being what—to adhere 100% to a label? I don’t want to steer this thread off track, but while I do find all the perspectives interesting—I hate the constant implication of having to negotiate what is “right” and “wrong.” I guess it is true that perspectives toward food can be as polarizing as religion and politics.