What do you think of the upcoming economic crisis?
Kevlar, is your post a response to my questions asking why Obama is scary compared to the Republican alternatives? If so, I do not think it is on point (though I did enjoy watching the video).
I generally consider myself to be a Libertarian. In 2000, I voted for the Independent (Green) candidate for President, a mistake – as I was registered in Florida at the time and therefore helped hand the election to Bush. I admire Ron Paul – despite disagreeing with him on pro-choice laws. I think he is intelligent and far more of a maverick than McCain, the man confusingly chosen to wear that label. I think the two party system is deeply flawed. Politics as they are force candidates to make major compromises to be electable – and Obama has made such compromises, just as every other modern politician with a shot at the presidency has. I think that some of Obama’s rhetoric comes from this pressure from supporters to refute the critics’ attacks that he’s soft on defense issues. Remember, Obama, like Ron Paul, voted against Iraq. Obama, like Ron Paul, was for the military action in Afghanistan.
In the clip you sent, Obama says that he will go into Pakistan if it is necessary. This is worlds apart from what the current administration did with Iraq.
Also, at the expense of repeating myself, I was there through 9/11. I held my boyfriend as he cried for his father who died because he went to work. I was living in Israel during the First Intifada, running down to a bomb shelter with my cousins, in gas masks. I have pretty strong feelings on Islamic terrorism and our need to defend ourselves. I think it’s wonderful that you live in a country where you have the right to disbelieve this threat and to instead openly post messages accusing our country of attacking our own citizens. I don’t agree with you, but I’m more than willing to accept your right to say it and not end up in prison for it. However, I think it is playing ostrich to pretend that fundamentalist islam is not a threat to the western world. Look at all of the attacks over the past few years – Spain, Bali. Were they faked as well? Islam is meant to be a religion of peace and it has been bastardized by a relative few. But those few are dangerous and they believe that we are their enemy. I am all for a candidate who will protect us from that threat. I am against a government that will use that threat as an excuse to enter other countries that do not pose this threat against us. Hussein and his sons were evil spawn who deserved horrible deaths and punishments, but it was wrong to lie to this country – the citizens and soldiers – about the evidence justifying the current war. I am against this kind of deception, but I am not against all war. Sometimes life is a battle, and you can defend yourself or die. I want to defend myself – but only if the battle truly calls for it.
And those of you who disagree with me and simultaneously post about how you have purchased guns to defend yourselves and your kale crops need to seriously examine your positions for hypocrisy or other inconsistencies.
I would fight for this country, and die for it, and I would fight and die to protect my family, but I won’t support any more invasions of third-world countries with no military that pose no threat to the US. Over a million innocent Iraqis have died since this war started. That is why we are despised the world over, and now in danger of another terrorist attack.
How far will we chase Osama Bin Laden? It’s been seven years. How many more millions have do die in our endless “war on terror?”
I think we are largely in agreement there. I am no fan of slaughtering innocent civilians. However, a country also has an obligation to not foster terrorists and to try to act against them when possible. If a country is protecting terrorists, it is putting its citizens at risk. If Pakistan knows of terrorists and does not act to eradicate them, and they pose a genuine and imminent risk to us, then we have to do something. Do you disagree with Ron Paul and the decision to go into Afghanistan? How is that different from what Obama says about Pakistan?
The difference is, I don’t believe Obama. He supports an invasion of Iran, claiming that they’re “the largest state sponsor of terrorism” and are “developing nuclear weapons” which are total lies.
Obama also lied about the Georgia/Russia conflict (along with McCain) claiming that Russia attacked first, which is another lie.
The truth is South Ossetia voted almost unanimously to break off from Georgia and rejoin Russia, but Georgia wouldn’t allow it, and started bombing the crap out of its own people, and Russian peacekeepers then tried to stop the carnage. If you check any news source outside of the US, you’ll see that.
I posted some videos about it in the Sarah Palin thread.
I read the economist every week, which is non-U.S.
So if you know that our next president is either going to be Obama or McCain, who do you pick of those two?
I would say it doesn’t matter, because they’re both puppets.
This country was bought and sold a long time ago.
Pakistan is a very close US ally, chances the US will invade it is as remote as Canada invading the US.
Again, we’ll have to end at disagreeing. I think it matters a great deal. When choosing between two people for a job, I will almost always go with the more intelligent and rational person. Personally, I don’t think there’s a real dispute to be had as to which man that is in this election.
Iraq was also a very close US ally during the Iran-Iraq War. That’s when we sold them weapons.
I would say if it makes you happy to vote for Obama, go for it, Dagny, but you’ll have to live with that vote.
I agree with you Kevlar, but Pakistan is different why do you think they have the atomic bomb….along with India (they are US and UK friendly nations)
I’m not as concerned with Pakistan right now (you’re right, it’s pretty unlikely.) I’m more concerned with what Obama said about Iran and Russia.
The point is, if you’re looking for a peace candidate, he ain’t it.
I totally agree with you Kevlar on “I would say it doesnâ€™t matter, because theyâ€™re both puppets. This country was bought and sold a long time ago.“
Change will never come in the US as long as Americans vote for either a Democrat or a Republican, they may wear different tie colors but behind them the masters are the same.
I am not from the US so usually I am not commenting on US politic, I did this time exceptionally.
What the US is doing is affecting the entire world, so I welcome your comments.
I’m amazed that you really think there is zero difference between these men. Yes, both are beholden to certain corporate interests (though i do not think barack obama is a “puppet”), but I think there is still great difference to be found between them. Ron Paul is not going to win the election. Ralph Nader is not going to be our next president. It will be one of these two – so do you exercise your rights and pick the better of the two, or do you just toss a coin in cynicism?
You vote for the candidate you believe in, no matter what.
If you believe in Obama, vote for him.
That is how I felt when I voted Nader. Turns out I helped elect George Bush president. However, I understand where you are coming from – and indeed where Nader was coming from when democrats attacked him in 04 for running again and he said something along the lines of ‘i’m running because i disagree with both of them.’ it wasn’t nader’s responsibility to get Gore or Kerry elected. I just think too much is on the line now for me personally to vote for someone who has no chance of winning. aside from that, i sincerely do respect Obama and I want to see what he will do in the position of president.
i’m signing off and going home.
I respect your opinion.
Nader wasn’t what lost the election for Gore or Kerry though.
The elections were stolen.
Our ballots are counted by Diebold voting machines that can be hacked in under 5 minutes.
I am really enjoying this… thanks for all the good information and opinion Dagny and Kevlar.
So I’m talking to my husband about this thread and he says, “so if it gets that bad what about when people run out of bullets?” I was like, uhhhh, I don’t know. He’s suggesting people learn some fighting skills too. LOL. It’s late…
I’ve been following this thread now, actualy since it ’s been started.
Kevlar, I must say that I truly enjoy your posts. I do agree with you 100%.
In a previous thread, (I think it was about Palin), I said the same thing. It doesn’t matter who is elected. they just muppets on the stage.
About the economic crisis:
from the article:
The chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, Chris Dodd, D-Conn., warned the United States could be “days away from a complete meltdown of our financial system” and said Congress is working quickly to prevent that.
Dodd told ABC’s “Good Morning America” on Friday that the nation’s credit is seizing up and people can’t get loans.
The ranking Republican on the Banking Committee, Sen. Richard Shelby, said the U.S. has “been lurching from one crisis to another” and predicted the new bailout plan would cost at least half a trillion dollars.
Gonna through in my two cents real quick. It really doesnt matter who you vote for because the Electoral College will vote who they want in office. The only way I believe a candidate can beat the Electoral Process is if they win in a landslide. But that hasnt happened in a while I dont think. Just look at the Gore vs Bush. All though the whole Florida fiasco is supposedly what caused Gore the election, he STILL had the majority of popular votes, but Bush still got into office anyways.
Mammamilk, I just read that article too.
It is scary.
I look at 3rd world countries that at one time were leaders of the world. The people did not vote. Yet, look how they are now. We have the option to vote. Yet, look how we are now. Does it make you wounder? Personally I don’t think either candidate will be able to help the U.S. situation. So I have to vote on a religious stand. In doing so, I rely in who I believe in to take care of our problems.
Like I said in another post, I personally believe voting in a two party system is a waste of time. Voting on a local/community scale is more important overall to quality of life and problem fixes than voting for a new president.
On the other hand, IMAGINE this. I believe a candidate needs to get at least 7-10 percent of the America vote to get federal funding for the next presidential campaign. That means that a green party vote, and independent party or a socialist party (the good ole days) would almost have enough money to make it a 3 or 4 party system. A system that gives Americans more choices, and would for the main parties to actually change, instead of just saying they will and when they get in office stay the same.
What to say they don’t join the party and have a good laugh on us?