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What else can we do....

Luna bluLuna blu Raw Newbie

The majority of us are vegan here, but I keep feeling that it just isn’t enough to protect animals from cruelty. What else can I/we do? I feel helpless sometimes when acts of animal cruelty keep coming up. Obviously, we are not hurting the factory farming industry with our vegan choice. We are not wising up the workers to treat animal better!

WHAT ELSE CAN WE DO?!! There has to be something, what do you guys think?

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  • Luna bluLuna blu Raw Newbie

    Is this too touchy a subject? No one seems to want to touch this one.

  • We can start a revolution. I am not kidding. This gets crazy though. The trick to this is to organize a network, not a central organization (see the book the starfish and the spider). Networks are less easy to track. Protecting animals is only a part of it though. I would like to protect us as well from things like the codex, pharmaceuticals in the water (did you see that article in the nytimes?), toxic plastics, raping the land, our food supply (pesticide free, no GMOs, etc).

    So yeah it gets really serious and frustrating to try and tackle these issues, as well as the animal issue you bring up.

    To quote Moby “Everything is wrong”

  • SueSue Raw Newbie

    Hi Luna, yes it’s a touchy subject but it is also a tragic fact. I know what you mean when you say you feel helpless. I know a lot of people who are aware of the inhumane treatment of factory farmed animals, as well as the dangers of eating meat that is pumped with hormones and anitbiotics, but they will still eat it. They just don’t want to know where it comes from. (Ignorance is bliss?) The only thing we can do is exactly what we’re doing. Sooner or later people will wake up (I hope.) Stick to your beliefs, and share with others who ask. Many people just don’t know.

  • Luna bluLuna blu Raw Newbie

    Number one, more people should stop eating animal products, plain and simple. There would be no need for such huge farms if people weren’t gorging themselves on meat and dairy!

    Number 2, The code of ethics that these factory farms have to uphold (there is a code right?) should be way stricter! If it exists, it is obviously not good enough.

    3, there should be inspectors on site 24/7 to inforce the code of ethics. These people should not be government emplyees, they should be from the SPCA or PETA. Their salary to be paid by the owners of the factory farms. Failing to comply should result in a hefty fine!

    I think I am going to contact PETA and get them to send me a box of their magazines with the most heart wrenching pics. in them. Then I will ‘accidentally’ leave them, (open to a real doozy of a story) on the bus, around the mall, coffee shops etc. I don’t care if people don’t want to know, they are gonna!!

  • Luna blu you have a beautiful heart and I like your idea. I think it will be splendid. If you are able to collect a good set photos as you mentioned, please share and maybe more of us can play Murhphy’s games of accidents)

    Stay strong and keep searching for answers…

  • Luna bluLuna blu Raw Newbie

    I like the revolution idea! Seriously. So what, this book, the starfish and the spider, it will show me how to go about this? I am serious here, I want to make a change. I need help tho.!

  • The starfish and spider book does not talk about revolution specifically. Instead it talks about how decentralized organizations are really really difficult to dismantle. Examples of decentralized organizations are the Apache native American tribe, the animal liberation front (ALF), and others. The book is about esoteric business theory, BUT if one wanted to start a revolution, you would want to be more like the Apaches than AT&T.

    The idea is that a starfish can survive if you attack one of its parts. It continues to grow and lives on. On the other hand, you can kill a spider if you chop off its head. So big organizations with a central headquarters are like a spider, you can dismantle them by going after the central core. But decentralized organizations, like the apaches and the ALF, are more difficult to track down because no central leadership exists. All of the parts, just like the starfish, can exist on their own.

    How this relates to a revolution, is that you need to use a network, decentralized structure to accomplish this, otherwise the entities that we are trying to change or revolutionize can attack with one swoop.

    I am not sure anyone has written a book on how to revolutionize away from the status quo. I suppose there are plenty of examples in history of how things have changed slowly. The hippie generation in the 60’s and 70’s tried with some success, but mainly it just resulted in the government becoming more aggressive. An example of this is the ‘war on drugs’ related to marijuana.

    But what can we do quickly to stop all of this nonsense? I don’t know. The power structures behind what upholds the status quo are insidious. I think its possible, and dangerous, but I am close to seriously thinking about how to instigate change. I would rather do it peacefully through education though. But Sue makes a good point. You can show some people all of the atrocities and they still continue to do what they want. And I don’t care so much about them, but I want access to good sources of food. As for the animals, well maybe we should join the ALF …

  • I would really like to add how I feel,way,way to upsetting for me to talk about.I need no more visuals,however I hope all of the strong people can talk and work on things to make it a better place all around. For me I need to do things quietly,strong but not to bring more of this destruction and cruelty to me.I hope that made sense and I super support everyone who in their way make s a difference!!!! Good luck and keep this post on going if possible and I hope others respond no matter how they want to participate,

  • Thanks for the book suggestion, redhouse. I just ordered it.

    I have two problems with decentralized organizations. One is that sometimes the message gets lost because they take it to the extreme(as in the recent ELF burning of of a “earth-friendly” mansion that I felt only hurt the cause.

    The other problem is how do I join?

    For those who may not know, ELF is Earth Liberation Front and ALF is Animal Liberation Front.

  • Justine, yes, many of these organizations use violence, which I find to no make sense and indeed are contra to the cause. I don’t think that negative attention helps anything. It only contributes to the perverseness of things. That is why peaceful revolutions are better. Joining is a problem. But you can track down sources and probably have to go through a series of ‘tests’ to ensure that you are legit. I never tried to join.

  • Redhouse, do you have any suggestions of peaceful revolutions that you think are effective?

  • SueSue Raw Newbie

    There is a forum on this site called “a new earth” which centers on a book by Eckhart Tolle. Oprah (and the author) is doing a 10 week course, free of charge, on Oprah.com. I watched the first week before buying the book. I just bought the book today and read through the first chapter. It is very interesting and thought provoking.

  • omshantiomshanti Raw Newbie

    i always felt that doing what i could for even one animal would make a difference… you know, be the change you wish to see in the world… so whether its trying to rescue the starving horse down the street or dropping off donations to my local shelter it takes the sting out of “world” injustices. Im not for joining groups, they tend to use methods that i dont approve of and get bogged down in their own administrative needs… but imagine if everyone on the planet took the responsability of just themselves and their familys how much of an impact that would make… i dont know it seems more attainable to me….

  • Luna bluLuna blu Raw Newbie

    Yes but not everyone on the planet thinks they way we do! That is what has to change. If everyone decided to stop eating meat, that industry would be finished. If everyone decided to trun vegan, dairy and egg industry, done! Finished, over.

    Obviously if most people know what is happening in these factory farms and they are still eating meat, dairy and eggs, then we may never get through to them!

    I simply adore my husband, he is a wonderful man who looooves animals, but bless him, he doesn’t want to hear about what happens in these farms because he wants to continue eating the way he eats! But one for him, he has agreed to buy products from local hobby farmers from now on. A step in the right direction for him!

    Peace and metta everyone. I will keep this post at the forfront even if I just have to drop a line saying hello.

  • TomsMomTomsMom Raw Newbie

    You’re very sweet, Luna blu.

  • JoyceHJoyceH Raw Newbie

    After the horrible story of the hallmark meat packing company I was checking out the website of the National Humane Society. There are many causes that you can email petitions. Here’s one for the humane treatment of poultry that gets sent to congress. I signed it and now get emails to add my name to petitions for other causes like saving baby seals, stopping the use of animals for dissection in schools, etc. I always sign them as it’s a small way to help out.

    https://community.hsus.org/campaign/petition_fo…

    With close to 4,000 member here I thought I’d share this with you all as a way to help alleviate animal cruelty and suffering.

  • When I decided to go vegan it was for environmental reasons which led to animal cruelty issues which led to health issues. In my personal experience talking to people about the health advantages and what is in the food in the S.A.D. is much more affective. My husband also eats S.A.D., he is sick with the flu right now as are many of my family members and friends. This is the perfect time for me to point out the differences in our diets and our health.For some reason people tend to think about what is in their food more than the food they are eating.

  • jenergyjenergy Raw Newbie

    I love this topic, and Luna I feel really connected with where your’e coming from on this. And also redhouse, the issues you brought up are so important, too. And it’s all the just the tip of the (rapidly melting) iceberg. That feeling of “where do I start?” is so overwhelming. I think we’re all doing what we can, taking it in small steps. Buying organic, choosing local small-farm meat over factory-farmed for our SAD loved ones, educating ourselves and trying to spread the word. It’s hard when your steps feel so small, though, isn’t it? If you guys only knew how often I wish I had a magic wand! ;o)

    I’m going to check out the book suggestions on here. That starfish one sounds intriguing.

    Jen.

  • Luna bluLuna blu Raw Newbie

    Thank you so much for the link JoyceH. I signed the petition , obviously! I will be sending it to a friend of mine who feels the same way as we do!

    Thanks oohbabylikeitraw for the support. Thank all of you for the support!

    It is high time for change! I feel like we can do it if we stay strong and don’t quit!!

    This post has had 254 views so far, but only 22 posts! If you have nothing to say, that’s fine, but at least go to the link JoyceH left and sign the petition!!!!

    4112 members here to be exact, I just checked. That’s alot of voices, lets use them!!!!

  • newbienewbie Raw Newbie

    don’t forget the disappearing trees…

  • Justine, I don’t have any concrete examples of suggestions. But to brainstorm now, I would think that a grassroots movement would be more effective. Perhaps starting a non-profit organization and going from there. Currently there are a bunch of gurus who make their living as raw coaches and gurus. That’s awesome and we need those people. But our movement would be different. We would have to outline which problems to tackle first. Say we take Luna blu’s concern first with the animals. The meat industry with slaughterhouses and factory farms is a good place to start. First you have to identify the power structures involved. Is the FDA involved? What role does the USDA play? We might need lawyers.

    We need money, so we would have to find grants or donators and have fund raising campaigns. On the more radical side, we could try to free some of the animals. But that is kind of like stealing and is it any better than starting fires and the other radical measures? But then where would the poor cows go? The non profit could buy land and let the cows hang out on the range until they die. We could sell them to meat eaters as long as they treated them humanely. But where would we draw the line? Is our organization for or against animal consumption. There are many animals bred for consumption, so say in a perfect scenario, we could free them all. Then what would we do with them?

    We can think idealistically about this, and it helps, but what will really help? There is soo much resistance and people are afraid. Certainly being an example is a great start, but that also freaks people out.

    Those are just some ideas …

  • amysueamysue Raw Newbie

    Hey Luna blu,

    I’m so with you, it’s extremely overwhelming. I live with a meat eater too and I just don’t get it, but I’ve found that getting angry with him only makes him defensive. I like your ideas and everyone’s feedback, I just signed the petition, and I just wanted to add that I’m a proud supporter of our local organic farm. They raise their own chickens for eggs and they sell organic meat from great small farms who treat their animals humanely. I’ve made a point of talking them up to everyone I know, since they’re kind of off the beaten path. When they were struggling, I emailed everyone I knew, and people were glad to know about them. Now they have a loyal following which hopefully will continue to grow, so we can vote with our wallets and spread the word locally about the farmers who are really trying. I guess the saying is something like – what you focus on expands. Hopefully someday humans will be evolved enough to give up meat forever!

  • Luna bluLuna blu Raw Newbie

    Thankyou so much for signing amysue!

    I am surprised Kandace and Ray havn’t posted anything. :( Well maybe they are busy with life!

  • angie207angie207 Raw Master

    Luna blu – thank you for posting! I grew up with a dad who raised animals for milk, eggs & meat, so I never had a lot of the issues a lot of people have about not eating meat to protect animals from being treated cruelly. Our animals were loved & treated well, and when they had lived their lives, we used them for food. I became vegan very recently because of my health. I had been eating meat (though I was picky about spending my money only on good quality meat without all the hormones, etc.) and then the rest was only raw food, for the last two and a half years. I never thought about animals being treated badly, because we never did it that way. Now that I am vegan & finally know how to get all the nutrition I need from plant foods, I feel an enormous amount of relief, and my life feels more peaceful not having to kill animals for food. I am grateful for your commitment, and because of your post, I am switching my son to almond cheese, even though I don’t know how I’ll afford it. You ARE making a difference!!! Thank you :)

  • angie207angie207 Raw Master

    It is amazing how life/God works! I decided to switch my son to almond cheese without knowing how to afford it (I have already quit buying him meat, unless it is Extremely occasionally and from a good organic farm). The same day I made the decision, I got a check from his dad for child support (only the third time in four years!) I decided then that I need to make more good decisions even if they are hard :)

  • Luna bluLuna blu Raw Newbie

    I am glad angie! You have to get that man to pay more support!!! That’s not fair!! You want to do the best for your son and yourself, and he (the father) should be on board with that! Take him to court, maybe they can garnish his wages! They have to crack down on dead beat dads!

    I hope I didn’t over step any bournderies here!

    On a different subject, did you sign the petition yet? :)

  • WinonaWinona Raw Newbie

    I signed the petition. I hope it has some effect.

  • angie207angie207 Raw Master

    Luna blu – Thanks for your concern. It kind of made me laugh, but not in a bad way, just glad to know you care :) But he hasn’t had a job most of the time, & he was behind on child support for other kids he had before he married me, so when he had a job once before, the garnishment went to them. Whatever, I am just grateful I am out of the pattern of picking deadbeat men :) Thanks for reminding me about the petition.

  • Luna bluLuna blu Raw Newbie

    Oh :( But on a brighter note (well sort of, if you consider the topic of animal abuse brighter :/ ) You are quite welcome for the reminder!

  • ZoeZoe Raw Newbie

    I am in favour of direct action. Here in the uk animal rights groups are VERY active. They liberate pigs, chicken from factory farms, break into farms film and expose them and liberate animals from fur farms and laboratories.

    Check out the Animal Liberation Front here for the usa: http://www.animalliberationfront.com/ and here http://www.liberation-mag.org.uk/alf1.htm in the UK

    Be careful now, the government classes them as terrorists!!!

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