Please don't get me wrong, I think this website is great in that there are so many recipes here... and it can be very helpful. If it were my website, I would make some changes to it. Still, I understand that in a community, problems are likely to show up in the forums. Why I do not at all blame Ray or Kandace for that, I would just like to share my feelings and encourage you all (myself included) to be open minded about it. Please understand that I've placed this in the Other Stuff section and I think that gives me the right to be honest with you all (myself included).
By 'people friendly' I mean that we love each other just the way they are and we try hard to not say anything that would challenge that person in any, way, shape, or form. If someone is running off a cliff, we think that it is love to not warn them about the huge fall (and instant death) that awaits them. And then if someone was to bring up something (even and sometimes especially if it was done out of love and respect for that person), then they are often considered either barbaric, rude, religious, holier-than-thou, an animal murderer, un loving, judgemental, etc. etc. Usually, its more than one accusation.
Let me state my position. I do not claim to be any better then any of you here. I do not claim to be holier than thou, or than he, she, or even it for that matter. I've also never been to college (not yet anyway). I have no degrees apart from my high school diploma. I'm just a guy. 19 years old. I can only say that I've learned A LOT since when I first became a gone raw member. That is not to say that I know it all, or that I'm the only one with the answers. In fact, I do not have all the answers. I can get you in touch with the one who does. But that's not me.
What is my point in all this? I sincerely think that a lot of us need to be more open minded. We need to realize that people DO change. People change. I've changed a lot in the last two years. I cannot give myself one ounce of credit for that. It is all because of the work God is doing in me as he gives me more of his character and as my relationship with him grows.
I think that if we see someone running towards the edge of a cliff, it is love to tell them. Not telling them must mean that you do not care about that person enough to at least warn them about the dangers ahead. I think that there is a big difference between being preachy and/or being judgemental, condemning, etc. etc... and having a genuine heart of love and sharing the Truth with people. There is a difference between talking with those who are interested in hearing, about how they can grow and mature, and being judgemental, preachy, and all of the above. I think that if we really want to get along, we should be open to what others have to say about us. We should not want to throw flames, and we should accept the fact that sometimes even though someone might be very angry and might have terrible motives, they are right about what they say about us.
I think that when people get so sensitive to confrontations, and be so quick to shove people off because they are 'preaching' then they are not being open minded about what that person has to say. And sometimes that person is right too. And then when we get so quick to throw flames, and to fight and squabble over the littlest things, we are being childish. I think that if you cannot listen to anything that anyone else has to say about you, then there is a good chance that you are missing out on something very special and very big.
And I think that rather then getting mad at someone calling them a troll, a animal murderer, or someone who is committing 'hate crimes,' we should love them... and learn from them.
Again, please understand I am not the preacher on the pulpit with all the answers. I also am not interested in broadcasting whatever I have to say to an audience who does not want to hear. I do not claim to be holier than thou. I myself have a lot to learn. And I've also learned a lot. Not too long ago I'm sure there was at least a couple of Gone Raw members who would of hung me if they had the opportunity. And I'm sure they were right about a couple of things. Please understand that I firmly believe that people can change.
So, these are just some of the reasons that I've not been on Goneraw all that much in a while. Again, I really like the recipes and all. I think there is always room for improvement though. I understand that disagreements are common in a community setting. However, I feel that we can learn and grow. And that we ought be more open minded to the Truth. And that if we would stop throwing flames at each other and start getting along while at the same time not becoming too 'people friendly' that we cannot hear when others are warning us in love... good things would happen.
And thanks Ray & Kandace for making such a great website.
I have to agree with you. I have thought about this many times, but I didn’t want to mention anything. I’m only seventeen myself, so I’m still changing. I truly do love the gone raw community, but one thing that I noticed is that or some people are very judgmental or harsh on others who don’t share the same points of view as them. Everyone is different, we are all following different paths and something that might work for one person can really mess up another person.
One thing I love about this community is that it is a place where you can share recipes, advice and ask questions and get honest and helpful answers. That being said I agree with you, people should be a little more open to change. When you post on these forums you’re asking for other people’s opinions, and you may not like the responses that you get in return. But just because you don’t like the response doesn’t mean you have to make it into a confrontation. You can acknowledge it and move on.
This was just my two cents on this issue. But I think it’s good that you posted this topic, even if no one else replies it’s out there for people to read in think about.
I personally feel that open, honest opinion is discouraged here. User the59sound always tells it as he sees it and every time he does someone jumps down his throat about being "negative" and not being "loving" or "helpful" or "supportive." It seems we're not allowed to openly criticize or disagree with anything for fear of reprisal from the community.
We can't be syrupy sweet about everything all the time nor should we be - this seems to be the M.O. for every post in every forum. I'm not suggesting we should go around outrightly bashing peoples' posts or being intentionally hurtful but we should feel as though we have the freedom and the leeway to actually express our thoughts and opinions without being condemned as unhelpful or unsupportive.
Personally, every thing I write does not come from a place of love but a place of respect and I think respect should underly our posts - not political correctness or fear on stepping on each others' toes. If we respect each other, then we can give our honest opinions and truly help each other along our own individual paths.
We are not all sweetness/light/God/truth/whatever. We are not all on the path to ultimate soul enlightenment. Some of us (like me) are just eco-conscious eaters who like to be healthy and feel good about ourselves.
I agree with this. However, I want to point out that some some of us do not say anything out of respect for another's choices. And some people learn better if they find out for themselves. ;) But yes I do think there is a repression of opinions, and I agree that too often people are labeled as negative for merely saying their thoughts or concerns. Not just on this forum, but everywhere.
I think it is fine to state opposing opinions, etc. but I think the problem is sometimes the WAY people say things. You can disagree with someone and tell them in a loving way that is not condescending or coming across as if you think your way is THE right/only way.
Hahahaha it's funny that you say that HappyRawGirl - my husband and I have this argument all the time! For him, how I say things is almost as important as what I'm saying and unfortunately not everything comes out so bubble-gum pink! :) At the end of the day we all have to realise that we're ALL in this together and that sometimes the internet is not the best place to communicate or interpret subtleties. Sometimes things just come out wrong when you type them. Sometimes when this happens, I just press "publish" instead of finding 19 other, more PC ways of saying it. Try typing something sarcastic without putting j/k or lol or a smiley face after it.
I'm going to write this in a random blurb because I don't know how to properly articulate what I'm thinking/feeling: I think we need to develop thicker skins - if someone has an opinion about your opinion than GOOD! Debating can result in some awesome conclusions; that when we receive criticism HERE, we should recognize that it's because the person giving it is trying to help us - having said that, we should deliver criticism and opinions from a place of respect and in the spirit of debate, information and helping; that we humans are egocentric and have a tendency toward feeling our way is the right/only way but we should all listen to everyone thinking they're right because somewhere along the way, we might have an epiphany. I've already had, like, 30, in this post alone :D
Totally agree. I often find myself sugar coating what I have to say here subconsciously because that seems to be expected. It's kind of a nice break from the constant bickering I find on most forums, but at the same time it makes things feel a little fake and forced around here. Middle ground would be nice.
It's funny, belikeyeshua, I was just reading some of the threads you started a while back about eating eggs and leaving the vegan lifestyle (because I'm pretty sure my brain function is not doing great since going vegan- long chain fatty acids?) and thinking the same thing about the responses on there. thanks for bringing this up. I have a feeling a lot of people will begin to be more honest in their posts.
That's just my opinion, though - and I think people who have seen my posts notice I'm honest and you either like that or not. I think the way I think. Doesn't mean I dislike someone who thinks different. Still, why would you criticize or think so much about the way others choose to post? It's their life, their time, their choice.
Thanks for your .02!! That is exactly what I am implying. Not trying to point fingers or anything like that. I think it has an awful lot more to do with how we say what we say... rather than what we say. Just like how we do what we do matters more than what we do.
And yes, we all have a lot to learn. I believe things will improve on Gone Raw.
Funny ! I was thinking today how difficult it was to be assertive without sounding judgemental...
I think a lot of people on this forum experience daily critique because they're vegans, raw vegans, or whatever they might be that's labelled as 'alternative' - and they tend to be a bit touchy about it.
I know I come from a firmly non-vegan, let alone vegetarian culture, and I have my closest friends looking at my food like I'm some kind of alien. And when that happens, even if you don't want to, you tend to go into two possible directions: either giving up or compromising, either clinging to a more and more radical view as a response to critique/sarcasm etc...
My point is, what saddens me about this is that Gone Raw is the last place to unload this tension.
I'm all about debating and raising issues but sometimes the people being the most critical are not offering much of a view or a possibility for dialogue...
I think also it has a lot to do with being able to chin up and face the facts. What I mean is, when someone challenges me on something, I can either be a wimp and call them scare crow hair and tell them they ought not preach at me (or something like that), or I can accept what they have to say and learn from it. I think, even if someone is red in the face, sometimes what they have to say about us is still true. And I think it is very good to learn from our enemies. Kind of interesting too.
So, I'm not trying to sound judgemental. I just think we all need to be less touchy about things and be more honest with each other. No point in painting pictures about ourselves that is not true.
Shgadwa, a lot of people on this site have a problem with Christians saying their way is the only way, which reeks of superiority and arrogance. (Not all Christians here do, but some do.) Also, a lot of people are offended by atheists doing likewise (which some here have done, a lot).
You yourself have done this in the past on this site. If anyone doesn't believe me, the search function works well, though as I recall, some of your old posts were deleted by admin.
That said, I could care less what folks here say regarding any religion OR atheism, so long as they don't try to hijack someone else's thread with it, and they place their threads in the appropriate sections.
Regarding the title of this topic, I have to say that since I've started eating mostly raw I've found myself more inclined to wade into intricate conversations with people, I feel more positive towards total strangers, and I tend to smile at people more. As well as that, you know how sometimes you can just straight away intuitively feel whether someone is going to be easy to get along with or not without ever having exchanged a word with them? That works better for me too.
I shut down my My Space page because it was such a hostile environment. I like it here because it is warm and fuzzy. If I see something I like I adopt it. If I don't I disregard it. There is really no right or wrong way just different ways. I don't really feel the need to participate in drama and negativity. If I did I would be over on My Space.
I'm with Alexa - the middle ground is good. Fake/forced is not good. I appreciate people who are authentic, even if I don't agree with them all the time. Being real is not the same thing as being rude - but when people don't want to hear what's real they take it as rude.
Sometimes I'm blunt or too brief because I'm in a hurry or distracted but really want to SAY something IMPORTANT DAMMIT. Or I don't have time to research something completely, but I want to chime in while the topic is active because I'm only here once in a blue moon lately.
Sometimes I'm blunt because people ask the same six questions over and over again, or don't use the search box, or don't look at the resources right in front of their face on this very website. I feel like it's ruder to ignore someone than it is to say "have you tried searching for this info?"
I've been visiting this site for a long time, and I've encountered people who are so dumb they won't even boil water because "then it's not raw." (This is not an exaggeration, by the way.) I've seen people dispensing dangerously bad advice, push their opinions about food/nutrition as if they were facts, or use people's sincere problems/questions as an opportunity to promote their coaching businesses or products. It can be very frustrating. Being frustrated can make me blunter than usual. But I hope if nothing else it's clear when I'm offering my personal opinion versus stating facts. At least I try to be. "This approach works for me" is a fact, but "it will work for you/your mom/everyone" is an opinion. "This approach seems to have worked (or has not worked) for many people here" is a fact. "You should eat more fruit" is an opinion.
I don't usually love people just the way they are. Everyone has the potential to evolve and grow and change. As Maya Angelou said, "When we know better, we do better." I think most of us here are in that position of wanting to know better so we can do better, and that's a good bond to share.